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  • Posted by joe 3 years ago. There are 34 posts. The latest reply is from yiyal2.
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  1. AWESOME post by BlogTO:

    • Toronto cyclists have much to complain about and generally aren't shy about airing their discontent. Whether it be the scarcity of bike lanes, the abundance of potholes or simply the fact that our climate makes year-round riding nearly impossible, I think it's only fair to provide a little two-wheeled perspective on the heels of Toronto traffic safety officer Tim Burrow's recently compiled Top 10 list of motorist complaints.

      ...

      # 10 - The close pass
      Having seen a friend's elbow shattered by a van "passing" altogether too closely, it gives me the jitters whenever vehicles don't afford myself and other cyclists adequate space. Granted this isn't always their fault -- roads are, after all, only so wide -- but it's still a common threat cyclists face. I'm not asking for the insanely wide berth some drivers give, but it's a little scary when a passing car brushes me with its wind trail.

      # 9 - Lack of bike lanes
      Directly related to #10, the lack of bike lanes on major streets throughout the city is an obvious pet peeve that many cyclists share. But it's not just an issue for cyclists; the scarcity of bike lanes is also a pain for drivers who are forced to share the road with those on two wheels. I know it's not so easy as just snapping one's fingers and putting them in, but it's obvious that we need a more comprehensive vision for encouraging the safe use of bicycles in this city.

      # 8 - Cars parked in bike lanes
      Boneheaded moves like this are getting a little more attention after the Toronto Sun spotted a cop car parked in the bike lane on Annette St. for 20 minutes the other day. The officer's gotten a bunch of flak for his parking job, but the reality is that this happens all the time. Normally it's not a huge deal, but when another vehicle and a cyclist inevitably try to pass the improperly parked car at the same time, the situation can get pretty tricky.

      # 7 - Potholes

      # 6 - Winter

      # 5 - Other cyclists

      # 4 - Car doors

      # 3 - Streetcar tracks

      # 2 - Oblivious pedestrians

      # 1 - Sudden right turns (without signaling)

      Full List at Blog T.O.

  2. I've got just one complaint:

    There are simply not enough cyclists in Toronto.

    Now, the complaints in this BlogTO are certainly valid, and the majority of them can result in death. Plain and simple.

    Of course, the benefits still continue to outweigh the dangers of cycling in Toronto... I've posted a short list here.

    Duncan's City Ride - That's my blog about cycling in the city of Toronto, natch!
  3. One that often happens (and might be covered under #1) is the quick lane-change. Someone thinks I'm going slower than I am (or that I will be able to stop on a dime) and decides to move into my lane right in front of me. I'd say 9 out of 10 of the conflicts I've had have been of that ilk. I'm getting pretty good at guessing when it's going to happen, though, and prepare for it instead of being surprised. Something about someone doing something stupid that you totally *knew* they were going to do is that much more annoying, though.

    Minor annoyance for me that happens all the time is playing leapfrog with slow light-runners. I pass a slow person, ride ahead a bit and stop at a red light. A few seconds later, here comes the slow person cruising through the light which changes 20 seconds later. I then end up having to pass them again - often several times on a cross-town trip. Kind of a pain on a street like College with narrow lanes, streetcar tracks, and cars parked in the bike lane. </whine>

    Biggest annoyance I have when *not* on the road is driver attitudes, #1 on the list the whole idea that cyclists are somehow a separate race of people who don't respect the law and that car drivers do. I say humans in general (and some individuals more than others) will push boundaries. Drivers are not some virtuous demographic - DUI, speeding, street racing, and other stats definitely say otherwise. And meanwhile, those of us who *do* follow the rules are painted with the same brush.

    Preaching to the choir now, aren't I? Can I get an amen? ;-)

  4. Amen. :)

    Don't worry... the songs our choir sing will eventually be learned by more people. :)

  5. Great post Duncan. Great post!

    It's short, simple, and incredibly effective. I'll re-blog it on the main page of the site. :)

  6. Oh, FYI, according to the 2006 census, approx. 20,000 Torontonians listed bicycle as their primary means of getting to work. That's an increase of 32.6% over 2001.

  7. Great post Duncan. The issue with posts like Derek's is that it feeds the misconception that cycling in Toronto is dangerous.

    There are so many other riskier things to do in Toronto (like driving on the 401 or eating at McDonalds) but somehow cycling has this negative connotation because the media exploits the dangers of cycling in the rare instances where something bad happens.

    People don't stop driving when an entire family dies in a car crash. They don't stop walking on a sidewalk when a pedestrian is killed, but our car-dominated society has fabricated a fear of riding a bicycle.

    The problem is that cycling will only get safer when more people cycle or when better infrastructure is build. But better infrastructure depends on more cyclists (or more political will) - it's a bit of a catch-22 of sorts.

    Anyway, like Todd said in an earlier post - preaching to the choir ;)

  8. So, I've learned that when you comment on BlogTO and check the little box that says "email me when someone replies to this comment", it doesn't mean that it emails you when someone replies to your comment. It means you get an email EVERY time anyone comments on the post. The 10 Cyclist Complaints post has 102 comments now. :)

  9. I have a permanent rule setup for BlogTO to put the comments into my "blogTO comments" folder.

    As I type this, the latest comment from the blogTO article came through: "I don't mind cyclists...just so long as they stay on the sidewalk"

    It would almost be funny if someone wrote it as humour, but sadly the person probably meant it ;)

  10. Anybody put some time to find a way to get ridership up in Toronto? I think some kind of mentoring program might alleviate getting over the hump that might be there for some people. It's a major time investment and financial investment for some people, and it's easily avoidable. If locals could provide a service of mentoring, then maybe people could "hitch a ride" into bike commuting, or recreational biking, etc. I've helped two guys get into biking, and they approach it completely differently than I do, but they too use the trails, etc.

    Your thoughts?

  11. I ride downtown daily and it seems to me there are more people on bikes than ever.

  12. Some of the BlogTO comments are clearly in jest... by people just trying to be funny, or people trying to be trolls.

    BeeRich - yeah, that's a constant idea circulating in bike-circles... some kind of mentoring or ride-buddy program. It may be a good idea for us to think about that as BikingToronto is tweaked this winter. :)

  13. Really great post! I'll bet that the number of cyclists will increase now with that unwelcome increase in the cost of TTC tokens. I've tried 3 times now to buy tokens for the few times a year I need them to go to my dentist in the north end of the City. When I'm not on my bicycle I use a cane when walking so the token makes it an easier entry to the TTC system for me. The lineups are so awful I've given up.

  14. Great comment from the BlogTO post:

    • From: Mr. Safety

      Bad behaviour is bad behaviour -- be it in a car, on a bike, or on your feet. The problem is enforcement.

      I remember a couple of summers ago the police did a "bike blitz," handing out tickets to naughty cyclists in heavy bike traffic areas of the city. (ie. Queen West, College St.) It definitely forced a friend of mine to rethink his shoddy biking habits after being handed a $200 ticket for blowing a red light. Unfortunately, a week later the "blitz" was over, along with any positive long-term effects.

      We need this approach year-round. Get the cops out at random, not just on the main drags but in the neighbourhoods, where it's like a cyclist's wild west. You blow a red light, you ride on the sidewalk (and you're not a 7 year-old), you ride the wrong way on a one-way... boom, ticket. Then watch as bad cycling becomes a thing of the past and the rah-rah car crowd has nothing to bitch about except being stuck in traffic while bikes cruise by.

      By the way, the whole enforcement argument goes double for these tards still talking on their cells while driving. They're thumbing their noses at the law and they know it.

      Cyclists, remember that when you ride, you represent everyone who bikes. Respect the rules and don't give the haters any more ammo; they've got enough misplaced anger already.

  15. Just to stir the pot a little, this is from the Toronto pike plan.
    http://www.toronto.ca/cycling/bikeplan/pdf/chapter04.pdf

    "In the more urban areas of the City, designating
    local streets for one-way operation has often
    been used as part of traffic management
    strategies. These strategies are often
    inconvenient for local residents and can also be
    a barrier to cycling. Similar to turn and entry
    restrictions, the overall objective in these
    strategies is to reduce and manage the negative
    effects of motor vehicles and should not
    necessarily apply to bicycles. Providing safe
    and convenient bicycle access in downtown
    neighbourhood streets is very important. In
    many European cities, two-way bicycle traffic is
    permitted on local one-way streets."

  16. Another good comment from the BlogTO Post:

  17. "Cyclists, remember that when you ride, you represent everyone who bikes. Respect the rules and don't give the haters any more ammo; they've got enough misplaced anger already."
    comment by joeadmin
    Amen to that! I'm always a bit hesitant to make a comment to other cyclists but honestly, sometimes I'm really amazed that more cyclists are not injured. I'd love to see a future when we could all share the road and observe common road rules and courtesies. A cycling friend of mine tells me I need to "get real.... The reality is it'll never happen. You've just got to suck it up and toughen up out there or ride on the sidewalk like I do".

    On a positive note I have noticed recently that more cyclists ding their bell when they are going to pass and I have to wonder if comments here and in the media have not influenced them. So if talking about it motivates them then let's talk it up!

  18. I agree completely that that is the reality and that talking about it does, indeed, help improve things.

    That said, I don't think it's right - all drivers are not judged by a misbehaving minority of their ranks, all parents painted with the same broad brush after someone sees a dad ignoring his screaming kid at the store. But for some reason, a good percentage of non-cyclists judge *me* based on that drunk guy they saw riding the wrong way through a red light or the person who merged without doing a shoulder check while simultaneously failing to recall the drunk guy that ran down the friend of a friend, and that not 15 minutes before, they had to slam on their brakes as a car shot out of a park space right in front of them.

    In other words, I think there are three things to address:

    - Cyclists need to be reminded of the fact that there is a bizarre double-standard whereby breaking the law with a small vehicle unlikely to hurt anyone but its operator will be recalled forever as representative of how all cyclists ride and as an example of why they don't deserve their place on the road, while drivers exceeding the posted speed limit by 20 km/hr or rolls through a stop will be considered normal because "well, everyone does that" and the guy who runs the red light in his car will just be some idiot, not all drivers.

    - Drivers need to be reminded of (and called on, in my opinion) the fact that cyclists are no more scofflaws as a group than drivers and in fact the consequences of *their* failing to obey the law are much greater. This is not to excuse anyone's bad behaviour (The last thing I want to do is encourage an "Don't worry, everybody does it" sort of outlaw environment on the streets) but is instead to encourage drivers to judge cyclists individually.

    - In a longer-term solution infrastructure needs to be improved to discourage law breaking on the part of cyclists. Why do many folks ride the wrong way on some residential one-way streets? Well some because they don't know better (that's an education issue - another point to be covered). But many ride that way because many small residential neighbourhoods are filled with one-way streets that switch direction frequently so that that street won't be used as an automobile thoroughfare, making the streets less safe and bringing noise/pollution to the neighbourhood. These aren't really problems for bikes going through. The alternative to going the wrong way on a residential street is to ride on a much more dangerous, traffic filled arterial without bike lanes. A simple solution to this, that has been implemented in a few places in the city would be the contra-flow bike lane.

    - I'm a big fan of the Idaho stop law. Again to keep the residential areas safe from traffic, calming measures are implemented like 4-way stop signs at every intersection. The intent, of course, is to keep traffic moving slowly through the neighbourhood and to encourage many to just use an arterial to bypass the area entirely. The Idaho stop law allows a cyclist to slow down, approach the intersection with caution, and if there are no others at the intersection proceed through. We *don't* need to be traffic-calmed, and given that I have no blind spots, no sound insulation or loud music, I can see and hear approaching traffic well enough that from a safety point, rolling through slowly is no different than a complete stop.

    Just my two cents. (looking at how long-winded I was I'm thinking that was more like a nickel, though)

    [I edited your link Todd... the youtube URL auto-show feature of the forum was mucking up the formatting a bit. I lost the URL you posted though... so feel free to post the idaho stop youtube video again. Sorry! -Joe]

  19. Speaking of the "cyclists are the scofflaws of the road" fallacy, Rick Conroy made a video that illustrates it pretty well:

    Get the Video Player

  20. I have a suggestion about rule #10 the close pass. Don't give vehicles the chance to pass closely. I cycle down the middle of my lane forcing vehicles to pass me in the other lane. I am sick of having motorists not care and clip me with their mirrors. So now I force motorists to wait and pass me safely. If we all rode like this, motorists would grow use to seeing this....

  21. Oh, I don't know about that. On the few occasions when I do ride in the middle of the road for whatever reason, I end up having cars following too closely and when they do pass, they don't change lanes completely so they still end up passing too close.

  22. @Annie My experience relating to that seems also to be quite dependent on speed and location. When I'm riding quickly, and downtown I find that I'm given the whole lane - especially if I'm keeping up with the car in front of me. On the other hand, if I'm going relatively slow I don't get that courtesy. And in either case I find my experience to be like yours in the burbs. I used to live in Thorncliffe Park and I found Overlea to be terrible - didn't matter if you took the lane, didn't matter if you were quick or not, you were in the way and folks were only going to get as far out of the lane as they needed to to pass you and then cut you off afterwards to show you how much you inconvenienced them.

  23. I can't understand why some drivers in Toronto have such little patience for cyclists. It almost makes me laugh when a driver squeezes past me only to pull up and stop at a red light. These guys feel they have the right to rapidly accelerate and pass me with inches between us, but then they are tolerant of waiting at a red light. That's one of my pet peeves too - if you're going to squeeze me, at least slow down. Most of these guys speed up to make a point that I shouldn't be on the road. How did we become so cold?

    I wonder if Toronto will ever resemble Amsterdam where cyclists always have the right-of-way over drivers and drivers generally have respect for cyclists instead of merely looking at them as an inconvenience.

  24. @Theurbancountry: I think I know about the reason for their acceleration. Right or wrong when my dad taught me to drive (now this was rural VT, not city streets) he said to give lots of space to the cyclist by moving far to the left (at least he was right here) but also to accelerate to quickly get by them. Many drivers I know are also made really nervous by cyclists because they know what's at stake. But instead of being sensible the motivation is to get out of the stressful situation as quickly as possible by passing quickly. Not really sound logic but I can see where it comes from.

  25. Not enough cyclists, absolutely!

    Over time, it is and will happen. More and more cyclists will solve or help solve all the other complaints.

  26. And I'm definitely seeing more of them. 2 years ago I had a client at Dufferin and Steeles and would bike up there. After about Sheppard I would often be the only cyclist I'd see. Now I routinely see bikes there. The Superstore there, where I would never see another bike parked on a lovely spring or summer day now has several bikes in their rack. Sure, many are riding on the sidewalk but in that area, unless you're able to maintain a good 25-30 km/hr and feel comfortable taking the lane, there is no safe space on the road and few if any alternatives but the arterials...

    But hey - more people means more need for infrastructure that will eventually have to be addressed (and, indeed, *was* addressed, albeit only for a short distance, on Dufferin just north of Steeles)

  27. If we all rode down the centre of our lane. After enough time like years. Motorists would get use to seeing this. Regardless, I cycle down the middle of my lane on any 2 lane road. No matter where or my speed. Screw the traffic.............

  28. Well, cyclists are traffic too... so I wouldn't say "screw", but on roads where there aren't enough room for a car and bike to travel side by side, then "taking the lane" is not only realistic, but it's recommended by police and the Highway Traffic Act.

  29. Speaking of this blogTO article, did anyone see the recent response from a fellow named Antony?

    For context, a fellow named Dave thinks that cyclists should be licensed, taxed and insured just like automobiles. He sounds like your typical anti-cyclist who is trying to add more barriers to cycling.

    Dave made the typical (ignorant) claim that cyclists are getting a free ride, and drivers pay for the roads, etc, etc. I and a couple others pointed out that cyclists also pay for the roads and I referred him to the Victoria Transport Policy Institute study that concludes that cyclists and pedestrians pay more than their fair share of the roads and actually subsidize the roads for automobile drivers.

    Here is one of several comments by Dave:

  30. Dave on December 3, 2009 at 12:26 PM , replying to a comment from Elizabeth
    Complaints about safety ,and how vulnerable you are when not in a car, running red lights, kicking cars, etc etc, are perfect examples of why cyclists and EVEYONE who uses the road, should be required to carry licence plates and insurance. Bike riders seem to think manditory bike insurance is ridiculous.....Why is that?
    If you're riding your bike next to my car, and you fall off your bike forcing me to swerve into on-comming traffic, so that I don't run over your skull, YOU have just caused an accident, and YOU are financially liable! So again, WHY shouldn't bikes be required to have insurance???
    The city can be a bike friendly place, but we need to make this an even playing field. Insurance, plates, and road taxes ofr eveyone who uses the road. NO EXCEPTIONS
  31. And now, the best response I've ever heard to this argument:

  32. Antony on December 6, 2009 at 11:32 PM

    "We all need the same laws, rules, fees and taxes, to apply to us all evenly. This makes everything fair, which leads to mutual respect."

    Great, Dave, I look forward to you getting your G1 license, paying commercial vehicle licensing fees, and stopping at every weighing station. You know, to be fair, and so truckers will mutually respect you.

    Oh wait, that would be crazy, because your car is not a truck.

  33. SNAP!

    -James

  • good one. ha!

  • Toronto Police Services added their thoughts on their own twitter-based survey on the 10 pet peeves. You can see it here.

    Mostly I agree with what he has to say and I like that he doesn't just vilify one side or the other...

  • Yeah, Tim Burrows does a really good job with the Traffic Services social networking stuff. :) Fair and balanced.

  • That is a great Post. It will have all principal of Traffic

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