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  • Posted by joedavtav 3 years ago. There are 10 posts. The latest reply is from proprioception.
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  1. I'm sure I'm preaching to the astute and knowledgable amongst cyclists on this particular forum. I am a cyclist myself but I also drive from time to time.

    What peeves me as a cyclist or motorist is the notion that many cyclists have that they are entitled to the right-of-ways of a pedestrian without dismounting.

    This misconception rears its ugly head at intersections in Toronto. Last night I was making a left hand turn in an automobile with a green light from Harbord Street to south on Ossington. A woman on a bike was turning with me on my right such that she would roll out on the right hand southbound lane on Ossington. Everything was fine there.

    A male cyclist on Ossington heading southbound, took the liberty of advancing through the red (since it was a T intersection there was no crossing traffic on his side) I can look past this infraction as a motorist but not as a would be cyclist who may be turning left to merge into this lane under the assumption that anyone else will yield for the red.

    The REAL KICKER came when the southbound male cyclist took the liberty of rolling through the red and turning left with the pedestrian cross walk signal. Coming out of my blind spot I nearly struck him. Had he dismounted at the begining of the cross walk and traversed on foot, I would have had ample time to see him.

    Of course a mild bit of road rage lead to our exchange of F-Us and obscene gestures. What troubled me more is that the woman cyclist who hadn't committed any traffic infractions herself decided to join him in his cause.

    What this gentleman did was in effect turn left on a red light. That's the bottom line. The fact that two cyclists think this is ok is a notion that has to be corrected.

    I say this as a cyclist myself. We cannot be pedestrians and cyclists at the same time. Cyclists are vehicular traffic and must abide by the rules of the road without exception if we expect a safer ride.

  2. Hi Joe... welcome to the Forum.

    You are mostly correct, I think. It would be irresponsible for any cyclist to act the way the male cyclist did in your above description.

    I do admit to making left turns at busy intersections by acting like a pedestrian (ie. using crosswalks with pedestrians to get to where I need to go), but I only do this at busier multi-lane intersections where I feel unsure of acting like a vehicle and turning in the left-hand turn lane... too often traffic is moving too fast for me to make a left hand turn safely in the normal way, and I don't want to unnecessarily piss-off impatient drivers who may be waiting behind me.

    I also make a point when crossing with pedestrians to let them go first. I realize that I am not supposed to be there, so I give them the right of way when using a pedestrian crossing. I know that I am probably the exception among cyclist in this practice.

    [Yeah, you are preaching to the converted on this forum, but we are glad to have you. Glad to have another cyclist/pedestrian/driver who can see an issue from multiple viewpoints.]

  3. Hi Joe...

    Thanks for the feedback and if I am ever ascerting something that is blatantly wrong, I'd love to hear it so I can be a safer pedestrian, motorist and cyclist.

    At the busier intersections I can see the merit in not using the left hand turning lane. What I do to make a left on a bicycle at busier intersections is advance with the green light on the right, stop on the right hand side of the street I would like to proceed on, wait for my green and advance on the right hand side with the vehicular traffic in the new direction.

  4. Agreed - that is maddening behaviour. Another way I deal with difficult left turns if the light is red is pull over to the right side, dismount, cross with the pedestrians, wait for the light, cross again to the other side, remount and continue. A related thing I do (that is less desirable as it sometimes raises the ire of those who feel this sort of flexibility is 'unfair') if I find myself in the left turn lane and there really is no safe break for me to get through after a light cycle or two, is to wait for the light to turn red again, dismount, and join the pedestrians as they cross and continue the above move - cross to the other side, get on and continue. In my experience, though, there's often at least one driver every 1-2 light cycles who is sympathetic and stops and motions for me to turn in front of them...

    I know we've all scratched our heads over this move here before but the move I *really* don't understand is when folks bike up to a red light and then run the light by pulling over in to the crosswalk and then getting back on the road on the other side. I don't even understand the logic of that one but see it often enough that there must be some reason folks feel they need to do it.

  5. Nothing new and original to add - just wanted to echo what Joe and Todd have said. Mostly I dismount. If I don't, I scooter my bike across rather than ride, and I do make sure that everyone is aware of what I'm doing before proceeding. Another thing that cyclists do that bugs me is change lanes without shoulder checking. Car parked in the lane up ahead? They just veer into the next lane and assume that anything behind them will slow down and let them in. I've aged a few years watching close calls from this manoeuver - I can understand how it can make drivers crazy. Killing someone who cuts in front of you that way can really put a crimp on your day.

  6. Agreed, Annie. I can not believe how many cyclists neglect to shoulder-check.

    It's more important than ever now with hybrid cars becoming more mainstream. I've had a few Prius drivers surprise me when I've shoulder-checked when I thought there were no cars near me. :)

  7. Prius drivers, e-bikes, quicker folks on traditional bikes - there's no excuse for not shoulder checking. So much could be lost for the lack of such a simple thing. Probably a function of having lost my sense of immortality over the past 10-15 years...

  8. I will frequently cross intersections like a pedestrian, but I will generally only dismount if there are a lot of pedestrians - and I will only cross on a green light. I also ride very slowly when doing this (almost at walking speed) and I always give pedestrians the right-of-way. I have never had any negative encounters with pedestrians.

    So my opinion is that a cyclist can do a pedestrian crossing as long as they do it safely and with respect to the pedestrians/drivers (and of course never go through a red light). I think cyclists should dismount if there is a mob of pedestrians, but I don't think dismounting is always necessary.

    I don't think it's fair to generalize this and say that in all situations this is wrong. I think people have the right to make a judgement as to whether it's appropriate or not.

    Same goes for sidewalks. When I get home from work I will ride along the sidewalk as I approach my condo building. I do it slowly and safely, and if there was a mob of pedestrians, I would most definitely dismount.

    Canada is becoming so black and white and we will eventually become zombies. Pedestrians are so dependent on the walk/don't walk signals that people don't look when crossing the street. You take someone out of Toronto and put them in a city in China and they will get run over because we are trained not to think for ourselves anymore or use our judgement.

    In the specific situation that Joe encountered, I would agree that the cyclist made poor judgement and was in the wrong.

  9. It'll be interesting to see how drivers/cyclists/pedestrians react on Front St. in front of Union Station when it is "refurbished". The plans are to make the street a pedestrian plaza in that area (sorry, can't find a link to the plans) since so many people jaywalk there anyways. They aren't banning cars from the area, just making the area more pedestrian friendly, with pavers instead of asphalt, less road signs, etc.

    It'll be the closest thing Toronto will have to a woonerf.

    [UPDATE: Found the Union Station plan.... it's on page 98 of this PDF]

  10. i've become a fan of the passive left turn, going through the green and looping around to wait at the red. of course, this can mean waiting at two red lights in one intersection, but hey. in the more insane spots, it seems a fairly efficient and sane strategy (say, at dundas and spadina). of course, this strategy also requires /patience/.

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