Over on Twitter, there's some talk about police doing a Ticketing Blitz on cyclists downtown:
Cops all over downtown today fining bikers who ride on sidewalks or pass thru the red light. Walk your bike on sidewalks!
Anyone know more?
About this topic
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Posted 9 months ago #
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Posted 9 months ago #
Its to difficult for these fat lazy pigs to give tickets to motorists. So they pick on the easy prey. I just dont stop when they yell at me...
[now, now... let's not overreact. We all know that drivers get tickets too. Cops are doing their job and we can't fault them for it. And 95% of the cops I see are in very good shape -Joe]
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Posted 9 months ago #
Remember to always take the tickets to court. You have good chances that the cop won't show up and it is a good way to protest being ticketed for unimportant matters. If everyone took their tickets to court, they would have no choice but to stop their "fundraising" through tickets activities.
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Posted 9 months ago #
Another way to "fight" future tickets is to follow our current laws. Simply breaking the law isn't a protest. Stopping for red lights does make sense for safety (even if I've suggested otherwise before). I understand why cyclists ride on sidewalks, but, if every cyclist took to the roads motorists would begin to see us all as an equal part of traffic, and not an obstruction to their speedy travels.
Duncan's City Ride - That's my blog about cycling in the city of Toronto, natch! -
Posted 9 months ago #
they have been doing it for a few days now
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Posted 9 months ago #
Just after the death of Alan Sheppard and the subsequent protests and newspaper coverage I noticed an unprecedented number of cyclists being waved over by cops, mostly cops in cars although I did see a few Cyclist-cops pull over some people who did seem a little friendlier and more inclined toward cyclist-education than the cops in cars. The area that I live in is near a couple of community colleges as well as U of T and I spent quite a bit of time out on my balcony so I had a front-row view. To be fair there are two crosswalks in the block I live on and I rarely see cyclists stop for pedestrians and further up the street where there is a stop-sign, cyclists just sail through. I made that mistake once - only because I honestly didn't see the sign and got yelled at by a motorist and I felt kind of bad about it. But I've also been on the receiving end of some not so gentle comments from other cyclists when I've stopped for streetcar doors opening and that kind of thing (like "WHAT!!! You think you're a CAR??). I sometimes think we really do have some mean streets out there but I hope it gets better for all of us. Maybe in say 10 years d'ya think?!
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Posted 9 months ago #
bikes are not cars, nor are they pedestrians, they are somewhere in between. that is the problem. the traffic laws simply treat them as if they were a car without taking reality into account. do people get ticketed for jaywalking?
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Posted 9 months ago #
do people get ticketed for jaywalking?
Well yes, but rarely. Jaywalking is crossing the street _and_ interfering with the flow of traffic. Since most people don't typically walk into traffic, jaywalking charges are pretty rare.
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Posted 9 months ago #
Rook, that definition of jaywalking may be true in other jurisdictions, but it doesn't apply in Ontario. "Jaywalking" is not an actual legal term. The offence in the Highway Traffic Act is simply crossing a roadway away from a marked crossing, where a marked crossing is available. There is no "interfering with traffic" component to the offence. Here's the actual text of the provision:
Pedestrian crossing
(22) Where portions of a roadway are marked for pedestrian use, no pedestrian shall cross the roadway except within a portion so marked. -
Posted 9 months ago #
Good point, dsler.
I wonder if that means that if a roadway does not have marked crosswalks, then it's legal to jaywalk. ie - it's only illegal if there are crosswalks and one chooses not to use them.
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Posted 9 months ago #
Last night on Twitter I received this "tweet" from the Toronto Police Services concerning a "blitz":
@TrafficServices: @DuncansCityRide There isn't an official bicycle enforcement campaign happening right now. Might just be divisional based enforcement.
Duncan's City Ride - That's my blog about cycling in the city of Toronto, natch! -
Posted 9 months ago #
Joe - it means exactly that. The problem is that there is no definition in the legislation about how far away a crosswalk can be for a roadway to be considered "marked". The decisions suggest that it has to be at least a few hundred metres - meaning (a) that a pedestrian is expected to walk a fair distance to a marked crossing, and (b) that defence will rarely be available in an urban environment.
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Posted 9 months ago #
Thanks Duncan. :)
I received a valid response from one of the people who follow @bikingtoronto, @smaryka :
"and as they should, either ride your bike legally or walk. all those RLJs and sidewalk riders give the rest of us a bad name!"
Totally agree... though I'm not sure what "RLJ" means... Red Light ???
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Posted 9 months ago #
Updated the blog on this update, for those who follow that part of the site. :)
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Posted 9 months ago #
Maybe RLJs are Red Light Jammers... sounds like a bike gang from the early 90s.
Duncan's City Ride - That's my blog about cycling in the city of Toronto, natch! -
Posted 9 months ago #
Frankly I'm on board with enforcement. Rather than seeing a ticket blitz by the police targeting cyclists as being "picked on", I see it as the police taking cycling seriously. Enforcement legitimizes cycling just that much more. I mean we can't both complain that we're ignored, yet not ignored.
And yeah, you're going to get a ticket if you blow a light or if you fly down a pedestrian walkway. It would be different to complain about police enforcement if they were pulling people over for no reason and demanding bribes, but I mean how many would take my crocodile tears seriously if I get a ticket for doing something I know is wrong, and then complain about getting called out?
THAT being said; yes always fight the ticket, and don't present a driver's license if asked for ID. I do strongly agree with enforcement, but I don't think that the infraction should be tied to someone's driver's license.
Also; good, I got a ticket without a bike license, proving there is no need for an added layer of bureaucracy. Councillors like Rob Ford have one less reason to open their traps and fart about how cyclists are lawless anarchists or some garbage.
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Posted 9 months ago #
Or maybe you should not "fight" the ticket.
I mean, if you honestly didn't think you broke the law, or the police officer did something obviously wrong, sure, take it to court.
But if you know you broke the law and you want a shot in court just because you hope you might get out of it for some reason? Come on. Aside from the vague moral point about taking responsibility for your actions, you're wasting time and resources - court & police - that could be taking action against other, possibly more dangerous road users. Do you really want one less officer doing his job on the streets because he has to show up in court to verify that yes, you really did go through a red light?
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Posted 9 months ago #
kafkaesque, if you don't participate in the justice system nothing will ever change or balance out. And from the altitude of your argument to morality I'm going to assume you've never observed what goes on in traffic court ;) That's why my post was in two parts. I'm not going to complain about getting a ticket on the scene, but I will certainly represent myself in court. Granted, "fighting it" sounds a little harsh, but that's basically what you're doing.
Here's the rundown. You don't fight a ticket assuming it's a win/lose proposition, where you're either going to get the full sentence on the ticket or you're going to get off free and clear. You're there to negotiate your charge. There are several levels of charges that can be negotiated in most traffic violations.
So here's how traffic court goes; All charges are mostly made up, but this is the general procedure.
- You get the ticket, let's say it's for "fail to stop". You thought you stopped well enough, but a officer observed that you didn't meet the required halt time.
- The officer asks for ID, you present a drivers license. The charge is added to your driving record. (this part is murky, I've heard it is, but I've heard it isn't sometimes in bike related offenses)
- Challenge the ticket. Leave the officer on the scene alone, she/he doesn't want to hear your arguments. You challenge the ticket by mailing it in.
- 9 months later, you get a court date mailed to you for a day 3 months later than that.
- You show up to traffic court. Being a reasonable person, you show up with your documentation, sober, and with pants on, and 10 minutes early. You are now the best, most prepared defendant in the courtroom.
- For the less serious charges, your officer may see a dozen people in procession in a small pow-wow with the judge. This will take 5 minutes each if even that. The officer won't even remember you unless you were a real a$$ on the scene.
- The officer will say "Ok, so I have 'fail to stop', can we call it 'fail to observe'? No points, and that's $20 instead of $90"
- You say "Ok cool."
- Boom, you go downstairs and pay your fine, and everybody wins. Cycling law is statistically tweaked, the city still gets it's cash.
Also, as far as inconveniencing officers; this is part of the justice system. That one less officer on the street isn't there just because YOU challenged the ticket, he's there because dozens of people have, out of the hundreds he alone pulled over the week he gave you the ticket. This is how our system works. He's scheduled to be there wether you fight or not.
Yes, always fight it. Always be visible. Certainly as a cyclist you really need to be.
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Posted 9 months ago #
I would fight it as well. Also Scarr brings up a good point about providing ID. You must provide ID but not required to provide your license as ID. Regardless, remember to ask that the officer clearly note that the offense was on a bicycle right on the ticket. Apparently this helps ensure that you get no points on your license for the offense. I'd make a copy of the ticket to be sure to have evidence if they put the points on anyway.
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Posted 9 months ago #
Scarr said,
"Cycling law is statistically tweaked"
Interesting points on the value of being visible in the justice system. I agree.
Could you expand on the "statistically tweaked" part?
Does the city use ticket data to get a picture of the streets?
What other ways do they have to collect data?
I guess bicycle sales numbers are important.
Road cams? - there is software that can recognize a bicycle as opposed to a car or pedestrian; does the city count bikes?Thanks
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Posted 9 months ago #
"do people get ticketed for jaywalking? "
As long as you're not near a pedestrian walkway and you yield to traffic, it's not illegal in Toronto. Just to answer your question.
Edit: that is to say it's legal
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Posted 9 months ago #
That said, apparently people *do* get ticketed for jaywalking. I remember a few years back there was even a 'pedestrian blitz'. While it isn't illegal to cross mid-block, if you're near a crosswalk or cross when the light is red, you still can be ticketed. Of course I don't know how often they do this...
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