1. joe
   Admin
   Posted 3 years ago #
   

   Bill Saundercook (co-chair of the Pedestrian Committee) is proposing lowering limits to 30 km/h to make things safer for pedestrians, as well as having a pilot project in front of Union Station with the 30 km/h limit and all "traffic controls" removed:

   • 
     Bill Saundercook intends to put his idea before the next meeting of the City Hall's pedestrian committee.

     "When you start seeing the (pedestrian) fatalities across Toronto, and you start studying where they're occurring, then you're going to see in the suburbs of Toronto ... where we have posted 60 km/h speed limits and in some places even as much as 70, that whenever there's an accident in those areas, it's usually a fatality," he said yesterday.

     "You don't want people to say, 'I'm not going to walk because it's too risky.' "

     ...

     Saundercook is also proposing a pilot project near Union Station that would see speed limits reduced to 30 km/h, and pedestrian traffic controls removed.

     "Make it a zone where any vehicles that are travelling in that area have to go 30 km/h or less and let the people cross the roads, making their judgement whether they can go in front or behind that vehicle," Saundercook said, arguing it would reduce the large groups of traffic-clogging pedestrians crossing streets near Union Station.
     

2. toddtyrtle
   Moderator
   Posted 3 years ago #
   

   Great idea to lower the speed limits - at least in the downtown core. Much of the time it will be meaningless anyway given the speed at which traffic is able to move, but still a nice gesture. In this article (sorry - pdf only) by John LaPlante and Barbara McCann, there's an interesting graph of vehicle speed versus injury and death (Figure 3 on page 26). With an impact at 65 km/hr, a pedestrian has an 85% chance of death, at 50 km/hr that goes down to 45%, and at 32 km/hr we're down to 15%. Seems like the wise thing to do in an area filled with pedestrians and cyclists is to reduce the speed limit as Saundercook suggests.

3. Duncan
   Moderator
   Posted 3 years ago #
   

   My gut tells me that cars traveling at slower speeds would be able to better respond to and avoid collisions and in turn, cause less death.

   It's nice to see statistics to back up common sense.

   Duncan's City Ride - That's my blog about cycling in the city of Toronto, natch!

4. joe
   Admin
   Posted 3 years ago #
   

   The Toronto Sun says that statistics say that speeding doesn't cause collisions with pedestrians:

   • 
     Drivers were speeding in less than 1% of collisions involving pedestrians, according to the most recent Toronto Police statistics.

     None of those five collisions were fatal.

     Numbers like these are what Councillor Bill Saundercook will be up against with his proposal this week to blanket the city with lower speed limits.

     Citing traffic fatalities caused by speeding, Saundercook is calling for an across-the-board speed limit reduction of 10 km/h.

     But Toronto Police traffic services Const. Hugh Smith said yesterday lowering all the speed limits in the city isn't the solution to pedestrian vs. car collisions.
     

5. Duncan
   Moderator
   Posted 3 years ago #
   

   While reducing speed limits may not be the solution, it is certainly a start.

   Adding reduced speed limits to a zero-tolerance enforcement of the soon to be instated distracted driving laws and you're making our streets safer for everyone.

   Duncan's City Ride - That's my blog about cycling in the city of Toronto, natch!

6. monkey
   Member
   Posted 3 years ago #
   

   With respect to the Sun article, if drivers were speeding in less than 1% of collisions and none of them were fatal than drivers were not speeding in all of the fatal collisions, which if anything lends credence to the proposition that the speed limit is too high in the first place. You don't even need to speed to kill pedestrians, the posted limit is quite enough, thankyouverymuch.

   In any event, I do not trust the opinion of anyone with such an egregious lack of logical reasoning skill:
   "While a fatality is more likely if a car is going faster when it hits a pedestrian, Patterson noted "The first fatalities in Toronto were when the speed limit was 15 miles an hour. So it's not an issue of speed and fatality."

7. lOCk
   Member
   Posted 3 years ago #
   

   http://www.roadpeace.org/index.asp?PageID=135

   Coupla snips:
   

   Hull council, which introduced a 20 mph limit in residential areas, saw a 74% reduction in crashes involving child pedestrians and a 69% reduction in child cycle collisions in the three years since the zones' introduction, compared with the three years before the limit changed. Overall, there has been a 90% reduction in serious and fatal injuries, and a 60% overall decrease of all casualties.

   
   

   The fear of road danger blights community life, keeps children indoors, isolates individuals (especially older people and those with disabilities) and leads to the decay of communities. 20 mph is the speed at which drivers can have eye contact with other users of the street. It is the speed at which pedestrians feel more confident about crossing the road, children can play outside their homes, and it is quiet enough to hold a conversation with neighbours. There is greater community cohesion. With more people out and about on foot and bicycles, there is also passive surveillance with more people watching out for others, and consequently there is less crime.

   A survey of European best practice by the UK Commission for Integrated Transport' found that where cities have 20 mph limits on most of their road network, they are transformed 'from being noisy, polluted places into vibrant, people-centred environments, with significant levels of walking, cycling and public transport ‘, with their associated health, environmental and social benefits.

8. joe
   Admin
   Posted 3 years ago #
   

   I never really noticed it before because I drive so rarely, and generally try to go slower than usual on residential streets, but a section of my street (near Danforth and Woodbine) has a 30 kph posted limit. :)

9. toddtyrtle
   Moderator
   Posted 3 years ago #
   

   I was noticing the same thing in our new neighbourhood on the west end. Lots of the residential neighbourhoods not only have 30 km/h speed limits, many of them have speed bumps as well. Definitely a different experience cycling here than in Ward 26 where I used to live.

10. joe
    Admin
    Posted 3 years ago #
    

    Oh yes... our street has "speed humps" too. They are pretty old so they are worn down, though.

    A section of our street is one-way only too, to prevent people from using it as an alternative to major roads.

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