1. joe
   Admin
   Posted 3 years ago #
   

   I tend to agree with this... there is absolutely nothing a bikelane would've done to prevent a cyclist/motorist incident akin to what happened Monday, and part of me thinks it's a little tacky of cycling advocates to use someone's death as an oppurtunity to push for bikelanes.

   • Bike lanes have nothing to do with Bryant

     We don't know who to blame, but it's hard to believe a better biking network would have changed anything. Torontonians have become accustomed to the cavalier attitude of bike couriers, who are to bicycle commuters what pirates are to weekend boaters. They don't bother much with rules at the best of time, their first approach to conflict is confrontation, and almost as soon as word of the accident was out they were organizing street protests at which they could block traffic and shout at motorists. Torontonians unfortunate enough to have to navigate the city's confined and congested streets knows that any conflict with a courier risks immediate escalation to shouts, threats and fists pounding on the hood of their car. Fear is the operative word.

     There are a large number of avid cyclists in Toronto and they could certainly use better facilities, but it would be wrong to turn Mr. Sheppard, a proud member of the courier community, into a martyr for their cause. The frustration of Toronto traffic affects cars, buses, pedestrians and anyone else trying to get from one place to another at a reasonable speed and a minimum of hassle. Drivers upset at being delayed by a streetcar have no right to block its path or smash their fists against its windows to show their rage. Pedestrians blocked by a TTC bus aren't entitled to shout curses at the driver or threaten the passengers. Couriers are no different. The last thing this city needs is another self-declared activist group that feels empowered to make life miserable for everyone else until the city caves in to its demands.

     We should mourn the tragedy that befell Mr. Sheppard, but the issue at hand has nothing to do with bike lanes.
     

2. sandlynx
   Member
   Posted 3 years ago #
   

   I keep hearing this about the "cavalier attitude of bike couriers", and around my town, the "arrogance of cyclists" and wonder, "Is this true?" I haven't met a cyclist around here yet that I can call arrogant on the road. Most of them do the stupid things they do out of ignorance of the law, and willfully disobeying the rules of the road, but not being cocky and arrogant. Everyone realizes that if they get cocky, arrogant, and break the rules of the road, you'll soon end up injured or dead. Cavalier? Arrogant? I just don't see it.
   I've heard it said about a cyclist "taking the lane" that he/she is "arrogant". They're not arrogant, they're doing what they have to do to stay in one piece on the streets. This is asserting your right to use the streets, which most motorists around here don't know. See what I mean?
   If this is going on in Toronto, in reality, someone please enlighten me.

3. joe
   Admin
   Posted 3 years ago #
   

   NOW Magazine has an article saying the same thing - Bikelanes and Road Rage are two separate issues:

   • 
     

     In my novice cyclists' opinion, Toronto needs many more bike lanes, and fast. It's too dangerous to ride a bike.

     But, despite what many are saying this week, bike lanes are not the issue in this traffic death. The issue here is much more involved, and not one that can be addressed with bike lanes.

     This is about our collective anger. The prevailing mindset of both cyclists and motorists seems to be rage – aimed at one another.

     Think about it: a bike lane would have not saved Sheppard, who was apparently latched on to the vehicle out of anger. It would not have helped Bryant, the driver, either, as he swerved into oncoming traffic.

     This situation, based on the facts that've been released, would have only been helped by calm.

     In the media, the best assessment has thus far been from CBC Metro Morning's Andy Barrie. He's focussing on rage, and how to prevent it. A respect-for-cyclist advocate on the show on Wednesday said it bluntly: bike lanes and road rage are two separate issues.

     What's needed is both police and cycling activists to urge calm, not just in the wake of this death, but on an ongoing basis.

     We've heard the calls for more bike lanes, for helmets, for following the rules of the road. But there needs to be someone calling for everyone to chill out.

4. toddtyrtle
   Moderator
   Posted 3 years ago #
   

   I tend to agree, Sandlynx. I've seen some careless folks, but arrogant? Haven't seen that yet. Maybe you're right about taking the lane.

   More than anything else the attitude that everyone on two wheels is a criminal and everyone on four obeys the law and pays for all the infrastructure pushes all my buttons. I used to try to address those comments but I realize that it really is tilting at windmills. We'll have to reach those people in other ways (or accept that they can't be reached, period.)

   As for the bike lane connection. I'll paste in something I said in an email earlier today:
   

   • The push for bike lanes seems weird at first but I think I understand
     it (though it isn't a direct correlation). Pardon me while I be a bit
     of an armchair psychologist (or at least for myself - not sure how
     others feel).

     This death hit home with so many folks so hard because it is an
     extreme example of what nearly all of us have experienced to one
     degree or another and that is aggression (verbal, with the horn, or
     sometimes sadly physically). We've all been yelled at, some of us
     have been hit. And behind much of this, in my opinion, is an attitude
     that we as cyclists don't belong on the roads. Likewise, we've all
     heard stories about disproportionate consequences for death/injury. So
     many drivers getting let off with minor fines (I'm thinking the woman
     who doored the person into a truck on Eglinton and as far as I know
     wasn't charged, for example) Bike lanes would, in my opinion, send a
     message to drivers that cyclists do matter. Certainly redesigning
     Bloor to have bike lanes from one end to another would reduce the
     number of driver/cyclist conflicts which could prevent future
     situations such as this.

     I'm conflicted as to whether this is the time to push for this, though.

   Think about where you have had conflicts. I'm not just talking road rage, but angry horn honking, getting squeezed/curbed, yelled at by a driver (or yelling at one that gave you a close call or worse) Has road design played a part? I'd say in my case, it has. Crossing 400 series highways is a point where this has happened, Bloor is another for me. On the other hand, I have yet to have a conflict on say, Wellesley or Dundas East where there are bike lanes.

   Hell, the same is true for cars only, wouldn't you say? Design an intersection poorly and people are going to get into conflicts. Make it difficult to see someone coming out of a driveway and you'll have conflicts.

   So while perhaps the circumstances of this *particular* case might not have been avoided from better street design, good street design definitely plays a part in avoiding many conflicts no matter what your mode of transportation.

5. michael holloway
   Member
   Posted 3 years ago #
   

   I don't understand why there has to be a separation between these two issues!

   Remember the former Attorney General had counter-spin doctors working immediately to besmirch the character of the victim. Separating the issues may help counter the spin but it doesn't get us any closer to the truth. I quit messengering because I didn't like myself anymore as a messenger person. I was more and more raging at the incompetence of all kinds of drivers; a general incompetence that leads to serious injury (broken wrist, broken tooth, bumps and bruises, cut by a cars antennae - in three separate accidents in three years - and yes I got the door-prize once too).

   Rage is a product of the chaos out there. There are too many vehicles and add to that the different universe's bike and cars inhabit (20 kph vs. 40 kph) and this is where the flash point occurs (If you see what I mean); a flash point where 2000 lb. car always brutalizes beautiful bicycle rider.

   There should be rage, and there should be and can be a solutions, that includes bike lanes and bike right of way provisions in the traffic law - like 4 way yields on bike routes where bicycles have right of way, for example.

   Michael Holloway

6. joe
   Admin
   Posted 3 years ago #
   

   Good points Michael.

   We don't know for sure that Bryant had spin-doctors working to besmirch Sheppard... it sounds like he phoned a PR firm immediately... but that may not have been anything but for his own image.

   Since it's coming to light that Sheppard was not in a good state of mind that night, and he had gotten off his bike and *allegedly* assaulted Bryant, this doesn't really seem like a cycling matter... although cycling groups are wrongly (in my opinion) making it into one.

   Call me crazy, but using a non-cycling incident involving a high-powered politician and a bicycle courier who may have committed assault is not the way to make any progress in the hearts and minds of the non-cycling population of our city.

7. toddtyrtle
   Moderator
   Posted 3 years ago #
   

   You're crazy, Joe. ;-)

   Seriously? Fine, take away the bike from this confrontation and what's left? A reminder that space on the streets is contentious whether those in the conflict are both in cars, bikes, or even walking. I assert that through negligence many of our streets are specifically designed to encourage conflict. Reminding folks of this fact when a conflict occurs is not opportunistic, it's common sense.

   That aside, it might be appropriate to mention a quote from Yvonne Bambrick, TCU's Executive Director on the article you referenced above:
   

   • I'm the Executive Director of the Toronto Cyclists Union - the first city-wide, cycling advocacy organisation in Toronto. I also serve as our spokesperson.

     I'd like to make something clear. I've done close to 40 interviews since early Tuesday morning and not once have I suggested that bike lanes were the issue in this highly unusual, and awful incident. I have instead spoken of the need for much greater respect amongst all road users while we share our busy public roadways in these less than ideal conditions that are often hostile for the most vulnerable - cyclists and pedestrians.

     This incident was triggered by a car/bike collision, and has served, in particular because of the profile of the driver, to shine the media spotlight on the ever-present, and growing, tensions between drivers and cyclists. I have been answering a steady stream of questions posed by media, not seeding ideas amongst reporters.

     As an advocate for our city's cyclists, it would be irresponsible of me to ignore these requests for comment about the myriad issues / hazards that cyclists face daily, and that are a concern for most Torontonians - drivers, cyclists & pedestrians alike. An opportunity for extended discussion about how we as citizens share (or don't) our streetspace has been provided through this tragedy and I'm doing my best to represent the needs and rights of cyclists.

     We all need to relax a bit when rushing through the city, and have greater respect for our fellow citizens, and the rules of the road that are in place to protect us. The meaningful incorporation of bikes/cyclists into our transportation network through the implementation of dedicated cycling infrastructure, combined with greater public education for all about sharing the road, are key to reducing this friction, and to healing the painful, angry blister that has resulted.

     Lots more to say of course, but will leave it here.

   So while some individuals, and I count myself among them, think that this is an important reminder of why we need better infrastructure, this is not an official position being put forward by the TCU.

8. joe
   Admin
   Posted 3 years ago #
   

   • You're crazy, Joe. ;-)

   I *knew* it!

   Seriously, this situation does raise good points about the interaction between cyclists and drivers... which is, as Scarr pointed out here, overwhelmingly positive.

   It does seem that the media treats situations like this much like they treat gun-related crime... although crime statistics are dropping (and Toronto is the safest major city in North America), any time there is a shooting, media outlets give the impression that we're all dodging bullets.

9. Militant MTBer
   Member
   Posted 3 years ago #
   

   Joe said:

   "....there is absolutely nothing a bikelane would've done to prevent a cyclist/motorist incident akin to what happened Monday...."

   Just to point it out, both directions in the section that the incident in question took place, were reduced to one lane in either direction for construction. According to the Globe and Mail from yesterday, who were referencing the security camera video, the incident started when Bryant hit the rear wheel of Darcy's bike. Which backs up witness reports that Bryant yelled to Darcy to "hurry up" after the light had turned green. The two were in the same lane with Darcy obviously in front of Bryant's car in that wetsbound lane when the ugliness started.

   Would a bike lane have helped? Perhaps there should not have been construction going on as well. I don't know. It's a moot point now. A man is dead. But I agree with Joe that Darcy's death shouldn't be used as an opportunity to push for bike lanes. That's for another time. Instead, IMO, people should be petitioning Ontario's current AG that Bryant's lesser charge be upgraded to murder.

   Surely, if it were you or I, we would have been charged with such and I doubt that we would have been released 15 hours after killing a man with no bail hearing, no bail set and on our own recognisance. But Bryant is not going to be treated any differently. Riiight.

   Globe and Mail article I was referring to:

   DEATH ON BLOOR: BRYANT ENTERS A WORLD BEYOND POLITICAL SPIN (Sept. 3, 2009)

   snippet:

   Around 9:45 p.m., security camera footage shows Mr. Sheppard on his bike, pulling up around the driver's side of Mr. Bryant's car on Bloor Street, just east of Avenue Road in front of United Colors of Benetton. The strip of Bloor Street was under construction that night, leaving only one lane in each direction.

   Mr. Sheppard gestured at the car and got off his bike when the car struck its back tire.

   Witness Raajiv Rajadurai, 23, said the accident didn't look serious, but the cyclist seemed agitated. He saw the cyclist slam his backpack onto the car's hood and then grab the driver's side mirror as the vehicle sped away. The convertible's top was down.

   Full article:

   http://tinyurl.com/mevvst

   They tell me that I have ADD. They just don't underst...Hey look! A Chicken!!

10. toddtyrtle
    Moderator
    Posted 3 years ago #
    

    Good points, MM. With construction going on there *definitely* would have been little help in this case. That said, it gets people talking about road rage, its causes, and possible solutions. I usually practice the "stay as far away from conflict as possible" solution but would love it if other solutions were made implemented as well. Again, I think most will agree that it wouldn't help with this situation but in the bigger picture of cyclist/driver road rage, there's a lot that could be done.

    Joe said:
    

    • It does seem that the media treats situations like this much like they treat gun-related crime... although crime statistics are dropping (and Toronto is the safest major city in North America), any time there is a shooting, media outlets give the impression that we're all dodging bullets.

    Good point except I hope we're not averaging 3.1 shootings per day here. And while I can say I have never once had to dodge a gun-fired bullet, I have more than once had a 'vehicular gun' brandished threatening at me and dodged an internal-combustion-fired bullet more than once.

    I think Yvonne's got it right in her quote above - there's *lots* to be done to deal with the relationship between drivers and cyclists.

11. AnnieD
    Member
    Posted 3 years ago #
    

    Great armchair philosophying Todd - I totally agree with everything you wrote, with a resounding "me too" re: the attitude that all cyclists are scofflaws who don't pay for roads and therefore don't belong on them - those comments following online mainstream media articles on cyclists are getting really *old*.

    Even if bikelanes at this particular spot might not have made a difference, the rage that drivers and cyclists feel towards each other exists because of the frustrations we experience each day trying to get around a city that is poorly designed for sharing streets. It would be a whole lot easier to "calm down" and "show respect for each other" if roads were designed to minimize points of conflict. With so many people driving and cycling with white knuckles and teeth clenched, is it any wonder that every now and then something goes snap? Improved infrastructure throughout the city could go a long way towards reducing the frustration between drivers and cyclists and make it easier for people to stay calm when a conflict does happen.

12. Militant MTBer
    Member
    Posted 3 years ago #
    

    Toddtyrtle said:

    "I think Yvonne's got it right in her quote above - there's *lots* to be done to deal with the relationship between drivers and cyclists."

    And we're decades behind most European cities in that regard. But we're a "World Class City". Eat me.

    They tell me that I have ADD. They just don't underst...Hey look! A Chicken!!

13. joe
    Admin
    Posted 3 years ago #
    

    Toronto Sun Editorial:

    • 
      Bryant crash not cyclists vs. cars

      This incident is not the cause celebre that should be used to examine bicycles, cars and their place on the road -- although that debate does need to happen.

      The spotlight is shining on this case not only because a 33-year-old man died needlessly, but because Ontario's former attorney general is charged with criminal negligence causing death and dangerous operation of a vehicle causing death.

      And the other issues being raised are complete sideshows.

      Did Bryant receive special treatment from police while being held? Yes. His is a special case because there's an obvious conflict of interest with many prosecutors, not because of favoritism.

      Should there have been a bail hearing? No. Bryant's no flight risk.

      Was Sheppard drunk, and should police have held him in an earlier incident? Maybe.

      Finally, ask yourself what you would have done if you were in a car with your spouse, with the top down, and someone was attacking you?

      What happened is either one or both men overreacted. Deciding who crossed the line must be left to the courts.

14. Duncan
    Moderator
    Posted 3 years ago #
    

    Back when I was commuting by car I was angry a lot. My car was never a comfortable temperature, it was falling apart after each costly repair I made and it had long lost its pep. This all resulted in my annoyance when a BMW rode my ass after a stop light, or passed and cut me off to make a right turn. I would arrive at work in a fury day after day.

    How do we let this happen to ourselves? Cars are equipped with radios, TVs, air conditioners, plush leather seats and require almost no effort to navigate, yet at the end of a trip by car we're frustrated, and should our route be slowed any more than it was the day before, we're livid.

    Learning to control our anger on the streets is going to take a massive change of perception about what it means to travel by car. If car manufacturers keep making it effortless to drive (automatic parallel parking comes to mind) then why are we so angry? Do we feel that in their efforts to coddle us in steel with all of our toys at hand, should they also be able to rid us of any delays that may happen?

    I used to do a lot of traveling with a few guys from France. These guys were aggressive, mile-a-minute and never sit down kind of people. Yet, behind the wheel they were cautious and respectful, one would give us a running commentary on what was going on around him, usually making fun of other drivers, pedestrians and so forth. In France they get a lot of vacation time, could this be a part of what made these guys such fantastic and aware drivers?

    This incident is certainly not about bike lanes, but it is about gaining respect in public spaces for all people.

    Duncan's City Ride - That's my blog about cycling in the city of Toronto, natch!

15. Militant MTBer
    Member
    Posted 3 years ago #
    

    The Toronto Sun, best liner one could use for their bird cage.

    SUN: Did Bryant receive special treatment from police while being held? Yes. His is a special case because there's an obvious conflict of interest with many prosecutors, not because of favoritism.

    LOL. He got special treatment because there is a conflcit of interest and not because of favoritism. Oh my frickin' god. Who wrote this?

    SUN: Should there have been a bail hearing? No. Bryant's no flight risk.

    Most people who do have bail hearings are released for the same reason.

    SUN: Was Sheppard drunk, and should police have held him in an earlier incident? Maybe.

    Those cops were told that had been drinking when they were at his girlfiend's place, by his girlfiend. She offered to have him stay there and she also stated that she was concerned that he couldn't ride. The cops said he had to go home and that he couldn't stay. There was no custody issue. The police didn't want any part of it and instructed that he leave.

    SUN: Finally, ask yourself what you would have done if you were in a car with your spouse, with the top down, and someone was attacking you?

    Umm. There is no evidence to support the claim that Darcy was "attacking" Bryant. Pure speculation. But since you asked, I'm thinking that, since the top was down and plenty of people were around (witnesses), I or my passenger could have be calling out for help. My passenger could be also calling 911 from her cell phone. She, I or we could also exit the vehicle and run into one of the many shops, restaurants or hotels that were open in the area of Bay/Bloor/Avenue Rd. and ask that police be called and await police assistance. I wouldn't be hammering down the gas pedal trying to get away with a man clinging to my car. If Bryant cared not for his own safety, and obviously not of Darcy's, what about concern for his wife's safety when he decided to renact an action movie scene in the oncoming lanes of Bloor Street?

    SUN: What happened is either one or both men overreacted. Deciding who crossed the line must be left to the courts.

    That conflicts with the above, especially where speculation entered the equation by the article's writer when it was determined by the writer that Darcy was "attacking" Bryant. There, the writer is not letting the courts decide. The writer is deciding for you and is planting an idea into one's mind.

    It's a very slanted article and looks like another PR stunt being orchestrated by Navigator Ltd., Bryant's powerful PR firm, vilifying the victim and garnering (more) sympathy and support for Bryant.

    They tell me that I have ADD. They just don't underst...Hey look! A Chicken!!

16. michael holloway
    Member
    Posted 3 years ago #
    

    Come on joe Admin., your assertion that...

    We don't know for sure that Bryant had spin-doctors working to besmirch Sheppard... it sounds like he phoned a PR firm immediately... but that may not have been anything but for his own image.

    ..it's a duality; if Bryant enters the PR fray then he must deride his interlockler, it's book, it's how it's done.

    You could argue that the witness to the phone call got it wrong, that Michael Bryant didn't call his PR firm, or that the discussion was about a different matter, but once you accept that he called his PR firm about the events he was at that moment embrioled in then the arguments over.

    In case after case in the last twenty years the defence tries to create doubt in the public mind about the prosecutions case in a public matter; whether it is a murder victim, a rape victim, or a hit and run victim the approach is always the same - to cast doubt about the testimony of the victim or statements of witnesses.

    In news item after news item in the past few days, including the MSN/CBC/Canadian Press item I quoted from in my Blog the lead was 'did the dead man cause his own demise?'. This state of affairs is making me sick with a good kind of rage; and I won't let it rest.

    Sincerely,
    Michael Holloway

17. joe
    Admin
    Posted 3 years ago #
    

    Thanks for your opinion Michael. Unfortunately, only Bryant knows what *really* happened, and the rest is just conjecture. As smart as we all think we are, we can't know all the facts. I'm sure some will come out in the legal process, though.

    It will be interesting to see what if anything is released by the police following their search of videos and related security cam footage.

18. Militant MTBer
    Member
    Posted 3 years ago #
    

    Mr. Holloway said:

    "....but once you accept that he called his PR firm about the events he was, at that moment, embroiled in, then the arguments over."

    Well, one thing that sticks out in my mind was regarding last Tuesday's press conference that was held some 15 hours after Bryant ("allegedly") killed Sheppard.

    Bryant appeared and gave an approx. 20 second statement. It was then disclosed, a few mintes later, and after the press conference, that his statement was prepared by his "communications firm" (at the time not named) as it was also revealed that hard copies of Bryant's statement were handed out to the media BEFORE his appearance at that press conference that afternoon. We now know that "communications firm" is Navigator Ltd.

    Whatever phone call that Joe is referring to, I'd have to think that, "yes", Bryant and/or his lawyer were in communication with Navigator Ltd., perhaps in the wee hours of last Tuesday, Sept. 1, to start the damage control/PR for bryant/media spin disinfo campaign against Sheppard.

    I'd also guess that on Tuesday evening or the very the next day following, on Wednesday, Sept, 2nd, Bryant was instructed to quit his job at Invest Toronto, and after doing so, it was very interesting timing as he immediately stated that he was "innocent" after his resignation from Invest Toronto where he was President and CEO.

    Mr. Holloway also said:

    "In news item after news item in the past few days, including the MSN/CBC/Canadian Press item I quoted from in my Blog the lead was 'did the dead man cause his own demise?'. This state of affairs is making me sick with a good kind of rage; and I won't let it rest."

    Nor will I.

    Joe said:

    "....only Bryant knows what *really* happened...."

    It is unfortunate that will never heard the other side's story. All we have left is Bryant and Bryant's PR firm who will work very hard, with the media, to downplay witness accounts of that evening.

    They tell me that I have ADD. They just don't underst...Hey look! A Chicken!!

19. michael holloway
    Member
    Posted 3 years ago #
    

    Hey Joe admin.,
    I see your point of view - your moderating, and you’re in a delicate situation.

    I also laud your respect for due process and the rule of law.

    I like the way you’re throwing up the talking points, really enjoying the site.

    Militant MTBer thanks for the back up; the PR business makes me sick. This situation seems to be leading towards a great injustice, I'm afraid no one's going to talk for Allen Sheppard; it's heartening though to see the messenger community coming together.

    Michael Holloway

20. joe
    Admin
    Posted 3 years ago #
    

    Hey Michael, without respecting due process and the rule of law we'd have a society led by mob rule. I'm sure no one wants that, despite some extreme cycling advocates calling for Bryant's lynching.

21. rosks304
    Member
    Posted 3 years ago #
    

    Many of these posts are conjecture,the bottom line one cannot use your automobile as a weapon and kill people, most civilised countries have laws against murder,and Bryant is murderer so the full extent of the law should be thrown at him.
    smarock10@yahoo.com

22. toddtyrtle
    Moderator
    Posted 3 years ago #
    

    Dave Meslin wrote what I think is an excellent article on this subject today. Still digesting but wanted to pass it on in the meantime.

23. michael holloway
    Member
    Posted 3 years ago #
    

    I was at a friends house the other day, had access to a fast computer and so, watched the surveillance cam shot of Bryant running over Sheppard’s bike and landing the man on the hood of the car.
    I've seen a lot of road rage in my time on the roads, and in fact was assaulted with a car in the same way in 2000.
    Road Rage Porn: A video for all those who just couldn't push the pedal:
    Should the video thus be banned?

    Just Kidding,
    Michael Holloway

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