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  • Posted by joe 3 years ago. There are 21 posts. The latest reply is from creator.

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  1. Wow. I mean, I know the Toronto Sun is pretty out there.. but calling for a coroner's inquest because someone cycling on a sidewalk hits a pedestrian (who later died)? And, saying that it's necessary that the inquest be done because Toronto City Council is pursuing "cycling friendly initiatives"?

    That seems a little weird, considering a pedestrian dies after being hit by a car once every two weeks in Toronto [from 2004 stats]

    • Whatever the precise circumstances of Jiang's death, too many cyclists think they can pick and choose between riding and speeding on roads and sidewalks at will.

      Or that they can obey the rules of the road until they come to a red light or stop sign, then ignore the law by riding right through them.

      Just as cyclists need protection from reckless motorists, so pedestrians need protection from reckless cyclists.

      That's why an inquest into Jiang's death -- not to lay blame but to determine how she died and recommend how similar deaths can be prevented in future -- is needed.

      With the police expressing concern about the increasing frequency and seriousness of accidents involving bikes, it's time for a critical examination of this issue, and what the rules of the road --and sidewalks -- should be for cyclists, including how laws can be effectively enforced.

      That's what we need in Toronto -- before another pedestrian dies or is seriously injured on the sidewalk.

  2. I'm all for an inquest but I want it framed differently. Let's look in to how we can effectively enforce all laws. This attitude that drivers obey all the laws and cyclist pick and choose has got to end. There are scofflaws in all modes of transportation from two wheels, to four (or more), to sneakers. We also need to acknowledge that faster and heavier modes are more dangerous and enforcement should be weighted accordingly.

  3. Just as cyclists need protection from reckless motorists, so pedestrians need protection from reckless cyclists.

    I just generally think everyone is a threat to everyone, including pedestrians being a threat to cyclists. I had to call out to a group in front of me: teens (although I've had someone of every age do it) jumping out to catch a streetcar without glancing back and I was biking amongst cars, behind them.

    Not even some sort of AA-4-Kidz, like a dozen classes on bike safety? Maybe some counseling, because I think hitting and killing someone, coupled with media coverage, is going to screw him up. He wasn't exactly gliding slowly with half-inflated tires.

    edit: there are laws on tire size, but what about speeds? Even a kid can reach good speeds on a small bike.

  4. If the inquest recommends that a bike lane should be on all busy arterial roads, I'd support it.

  5. I think more laws will be followed by cyclists when the infrastructure is more friendly to cyclists.

  6. I think you're right. Sure, there's a good portion of bad behaviour that is driven by selfishness or an f-you attitude. On the other hand, I'd say a good portion, especially when it comes to sidewalk-cycling is driven by a desire to be safer. (Yes, I realize in many cases this is not the case).

    I agree with Angus - if the inquest led to bike lanes on busy arterial roads I'd be all for it. It only makes sense. Unfortunately, for the sidewalk-cycling set, I don't think it's just about infrastructure, it's about conditions overall being made safer - and that includes drivers' attitudes being changed as well.

  7. Let's get a grip here - not everything has to be a battle in your War on the Car ;)

    If the law against cycling on sidewalks were enforced, then:

    a) pedestrians would be safer
    b) cyclists would be safer
    c) casual cyclists would join in our demands for more bike lanes.

  8. I am not sure about result 'c', or even result 'b' on a street such as Kennedy in that area.

    Arterials, where the speed limit is 60-80 and drivers routinely go 90-100 are dangerous for cycling period. Try taking a lane knowing that someone could give you a 90 km/hr SUV enema. It isn't going to happen. I freely admit to sidewalk-cycling on Dufferin between Finch and Steeles for this very reason. Granted, it is 99% empty, mostly free of driveways on the east side, and when there *are* pedestrians I slow to walking pace well before I reach them and leave the sidewalk for the grass. But really, doesn't this also highlight something? Specifically, looking at a street like Dufferin north of Finch, Steeles west of Bathurst and many others have *very* wide grassy areas between the sidewalk and the street. That could *easily* be turned into a separated lane.

    As for the last point: It's clear that sidewalk cyclists are a nervous lot. I suspect if there were a sustained enforcement blitz without additional infrastructure, we wouldn't see more road cyclists, these folks would just stop cycling.

  9. Great points Todd.

    In the old boroughs and the GTA, where most roads that go anywhere are signed at 60-80 km/h, and where drivers drive much faster, even traditional bikelanes will not help significantly.

    Riding alongside very fast traffic, even with a painted line seperating it, is still very scary.

    Having some kind of physical separation, or having the bike infrastructure off the road would be much more useful... atleast until the traffic slows down on these arterials (through traffic jams or a re-imagining of the streetscape by suburban planners).

    On Bayview in Aurora there is bike infrastructure on the grassy areas between sidewalk and street, just like Todd mentioned.

  10. A couple points about these scary suburban carterials:

    1. On so many of them, the sidewalk is a de facto bike lane, with almost NO pedestrian traffic except at bus stops.

    2. I've often thought a protected bike lane on York Mills between Bayview and Leslie woudl be so easy given all the grass. Who needs grass?

  11. Just found the blog post I did back in 2006 about Bayview Ave. in Aurora I mentioned above... I'll copy and paste it here for everyone:

    • We have friends who live on the outskirts of Aurora, which is on the outskirts of the "Greater Toronto Area". In other words, the edge of suburbia.

      I sometimes get sick going up there because their neighbourhood (which was farmers fields at the turn of the millenium) is right beside huge plots of hundreds of acres of land, being scraped off in preparation of new wasteful subdivisions.

      Anyhow, on this trip to suburbia, I took along the camera to take photos of the cycling infrastructure I had noticed:

      I'll start with the good - actual paved paths for cyclists between the sidewalk and the road (specifically, Bayview Ave. between Wellington and St. John's Sideroad) which helps hugely with safety. Although the posted speed limit here is 60 km/h, the real speed along here is about 80 km/h, with it not being rare to see cars going close to 100 km/h.

      The bad part of these paths is that there is nothing special where they cross roads - no differently coloured pavement, or bricked walkways, or anything.

  12. That is *exactly* what I'm talking about. This could be done on so many roads here with little effort. Signals would need to be installed at some points, though.

    I'm not usually one for advocating digging up greenery and paving it over but in this case I think it makes lots of sense. Like I said, Dufferin from Finch to Steeles could easily be done this way. Steeles from Bathurst to at least Jane also. And just north of Steeles is a hydro corridor. There's no reason that couldn't be a superhighway.

  13. Great idea. See this bike lane porn (from Munich): not much signage is needed to turn your Bayview photo into something comparable.

  14. Redesigns like this could do so much to change the character of some of the more nasty Scarborough/North York roads. And I like to think someday maybe we'll see this sort of thing on Bloor/Danforth.

    Hey, a guy can dream!

  15. The boulevard running along Keele north of the 401 is already paved.

    Problem is that the pavement has utility poles running the length of it. Good for slalom... bad for anything else.

    But the space is there, especially once you get closer to York University.

    Like Todd, I'll keep dreaming, while spending the majority of my commute looking over my shoulder to keep from getting hit.

    Duncan's City Ride - That's my blog about cycling in the city of Toronto, natch!
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