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  • Posted by Duncan 3 years ago. There are 20 posts. The latest reply is from toddtyrtle.
  1. Confusion on the Waterfront

    There's a new mixed-use path down along the waterfront.

    Only, it doesn't go along the water. Ontario Place has claimed that stretch of land for parking.

    Replacing a cumbersome diversion through a parking lot and past line ups of tourists, the Martin Goodman Trail now runs parallel to Lake Shore Boulevard and since it's opening on July 31, 2009, has already brought about a concern for safety.

    Over the long weekend I took a trip down the new path to see what all the fuss was about. Cycling west from Harbourfront along Queen's Quay was jammed with cars, transit and bikes, reaching the Martin Goodman trail feels like a serene stretch of calm in comparison.

    Read the rest of my trip along the Martin Goodman Trail here

    Duncan's City Ride - That's my blog about cycling in the city of Toronto, natch!
  2. Good review.
    I'm glad the trail has been straightened out and avoids tourists who are strolling down at the water's edge. However this means we have to deal with cars exiting and entering Ontario Place, that can't be avoided but at least they're more predictable than pedestrians.

  3. @Angus

    I plan to visit the trail again on a busy Saturday to see how the flow is. Although it may not take a lot of cars to cause a problem, just one driver rushing in, late in the day could be all it takes.

    The diversion was nice in that you got to see the boats docked, the fans waiting for concerts and pedal boaters in the water. But the pavement was in disrepair, I'd seen a bunch of cyclists come to a skid stop at the stair drop-off they weren't expecting, and once you got around the bridge you were in parking lot traffic that could get hectic.

    Duncan's City Ride - That's my blog about cycling in the city of Toronto, natch!
  4. I have been using the Martin Goodman trail daily for commuting from South Etobicoke for more than 5 years, about 11 months a year. I find that the new stretch through Ontario Place is now the most dangerous part of my commute. The new design means that MG Trail users now have to cross path with all the traffic going to Ontario Place, rather than a small subset. While the old official trail was bad, the more often used path through the parking roadways worked quite well.

    Safety deficiencies include:

    1. The path intersect the entrances to Ontario Place (including a brand new 4 lanes divided entrance) too close to Lakeshore. The trail users are busy trying to avoid the multitude of obstacles like barriers and lamposts that forces them to zig zag sharply, leaving little attention to look for vehicles turning from both Lakeshore East and Lakeshore West through the path. Going home yesterday, I had to avoid two vehicles doing such turns with disregard for trail users. At the same time, vehicle drivers do not realize that they have to cross both a pedestrian crosswalk and a multi-use path. The intersections between the trail and the entrance should be about 10 meters after the turn, like on many city parking lots near Humber.

    2. Vehicles waiting to turn on red from Ontario Place to Lakeshore often block the path. Trail users have to weave through these stopped vehicles.

    3. Drivers going to Ontario Place are generally tourists and visitors unfamiliar with the area, they do not realize that they are crossing a multiuse path, and unlike at the Boulevard Club intersection where regular members do get used to the trail, drivers at Ontario Place will not.

    4. The barriers have been left grey so they are harder to see. They should be painted high visibility yellow.

    5. The path narrows to about half its width through the intersections, making it even harder for trail users to navigate with users going both ways.

    6. There is a small berm at some intersections making it even harder for motorists to see what is happening on the trail.

    All in all, I find that little more could have been done to make it more unsafe and more difficult for trail users to go through Ontario Place. At a time where all levels of governments are speaking for the use of alternate methods for getting around, such as bicycles, it is puzzling to see that an Ontario Government agency and the City of Toronto have invested large amounts of tax dollars to make it easier for private vehicles to access Ontario Place at the expense of the time and safety of the users of healthier and cleaner modes on transportation. It is obvious that no one involved in this project is a trail user, and it seems that no effort was made to have more imaginative ideas. Go Transit and the TTC come to Exhibition Place, a shuttle train would have been both cool and entertaining for the visitors.

    I have had to take collision avoidance measures three times in three days through that stretch of my commute. It is just a matter of time before someone gets badly injured or killed. The root cause is an extremely poor design that puts our city and our province to shame.

  5. I agree -- at first I thought this new path was an immprovement over havint to go around
    and under, since the roadway has been under construction
    But now having used the new part of the path .. and the car traffice entering Ontario Place
    it is a disater waiting to happen ... worse than the Blvd Club and this pretty bad

    I haven't been around when a concert is on at the Ampitheatre - but I bet that is horrible
    and during the CNE it will awful ...

    I think I will stick the Ontario Place roadway - as far as can ...

  6. I agree with everything above and add me to the list of people disappointed about what has been done here.

    Removing the barriers, maintaining the width of the trail and building the trail in from the road to create a buffer zone would have helped tremendously and I could have told them that before construction even began.

    I do have another complaint to add. The transition of the path to the crossings are quite rough too. It is the path that is crossing the road, not the other way around. This is a small annoyance but the thing is, it didn't have to happen.

    For the record I'm riding 23c tires at 120psi.

    sure I could could get a comfort hybrid and double my commute time which already pushes the amount I see as barely practical. So much so that my legs can really only take 2-3 days of commuting a week. the rest is on the subway.

    Not to mention that I add ~7km to my trip just to take the martin goodman instead of bloor since there is no east west bike lane.

  7. I'm not exactly sure where this trail is. Did I miss a map or something? I'm just curious because I've biked the waterfront trail many times, but I have a feeling that either I've never touched that stretch or I have and just didn't realize it. Either way, I've never had a problem with other people (whether on foot or in a car).

    I ask because I know many trails but not by their name and good old Googling didn't really help. I'd just like to specify where this trail is that's being discussed. Thanks.

  8. @twowheels The trail runs along Lake Shore Blvd on the south side passing in front of the Ontario Place parking lots.

    Here's a map.

    Duncan's City Ride - That's my blog about cycling in the city of Toronto, natch!
  9. The deficiencies don't end with what's described above. We were outright LIED to. Ontario Place, during the planning, promised to keep old path open to pedestrians. I found that access to the old trail has been COMPLETELY blocked at either end. Also, the trail was actually supposed to connect Ontario Place to the Martin-Goodman trail but it completely by-passes it (Unless you want to be riding your bike in one of the busy driveways)

    The bike parking still sucks at Ontario Place, but at least now, with the new path, you can't get to it.

  10. I sent an email to Dan Egan, Manager of Cycling Infrastructure and Programs and mentioned folks' concerns, pointing him at both this forum thread and the one on ibiketo. Here's the response I received:

    Thank you for your email. The rerouting of the trail has been in the planning for several years. Moving the trail closer to Lake Shore Boulevard is an idea suggested by many commuter cyclists who use the trail regularly. The original routing of the Martin Goodman Trail along the south edge of the Ontario Place parking lot, close to the water's edge, was rife with conflicts between pedestrians and cyclists. many cyclists avoided this section and simply rode the access road next to Lake Shore or rode through the parking lot. The new location provides a much more direct route for cyclists and also enables us to provide new connections across Lake Shore Blvd into Exhibition Place for cyclists.

    I haven't had an opportunity to ride the recently completed so I can't comment personally on the issue you raise. I will have my staff review your concerns and respond directly to you.

    With any luck his staff will come up with some good ideas. Surely this isn't the best that can be done in this situation.

    (Edited to add feedback just received today from Jennifer Hyland, one of the transportation planners)
    She said:
    This week City staff are meeting on site to review the final construction details with Waterfront Toronto and we will be sure to address your concerns with the project team.

    There may be some hope for a solution then as it is not all set in stone.

  11. The problem with the new design is mainly the three intersections which are so badly designed one wonders if it is only incompetence or if they were made to be dangerous for trail users on purpose. The natural alignment of the trail several meters away from Lakeshore Boulevard would have been better than the implemented design which forces trail users to swerve closer to Lakeshore through an obstacle course of hard to see barriers and lampposts. This makes it harder to also put some attention on watching traffic.

    The design is bad for vehicles as well. Drivers need to block both the trail and the pedestrian path to be able to prepare to turn.

    These intersections are a complete fiasco and there are no quick fixes. The trail needs to be rerouted further away from Lakeshore at all three intersections and it will cost money.

    What is more important, the safety of the MG Trail users or money to fix the fiasco created by bad design? Will we need to wait for trail users to be injured and killed, or will the intersections be rebuilt before?

    As I wrote before, this incredibly stupid design puts Toronto and Ontario to shame.

  12. If cyclists were involved during the design process I doubt such a poor design would have come to be.

  13. Apparently according to the city they were. How *much* they were, or how much they were listened to is another story.

    I say drop a line to Dan Egan (degan@city.toronto.on.ca), copy Adrian Heaps (councillor_heaps@toronto.ca), and Mayor Miller (mayor_miller@toronto.ca) with your concerns.

    I'm not terribly hopeful for the next year or so for cycling infrastructure. There's an election next year and the right has made it clear the "war on cars" is one of the big issues they want to push. To that end, I suspect we'll see record low implementation of cycling infrastructure while those in power try to avoid pissing off the Sun readers.

  14. biking down and up at the 3 intersections with the metal deflectors and such felt more like a downhill section than a road path this busy sunny Saturday afternoon.

  15. @bonfire

    What do you mean? It felt like a slalom course?

    Duncan's City Ride - That's my blog about cycling in the city of Toronto, natch!
  16. These intersections are bad for cars too!

    It is important to stress that these three intersections are badly designed from a car driver's viewpoint as well. The trail crossings being right next to Lakeshore make it very difficult for vehicles to turn in safety either from Lakeshore into Ontario Place, or from Ontario Place onto Lakeshore.

    1. Cars facing West turning left into Ontario Place have to watch and wait for an opening in both oncoming vehicle traffic (3 lanes wide), westbound traffic on the trail, and eastbound traffic on the trail. This is not easy to do in safety particularly since the westbound trail traffic comes from behind.

    2. Cars facing East turning right into Ontario Place have to watch and wait for an opening in both westbound traffic on the trail, and eastbound traffic on the trail. This is not easy to do in safety particularly since the eastbound trail traffic comes from behind, and the view is partly obstructed by a berm and trees at places.

    3. Cars coming out of Ontario Place wishing to turn right on Lakeshore must block the trail and the pedestrian crossing to have a proper view of traffic on Lakeshore. Many drivers back up out of the way when they see trail users coming, creating an additional hazard.

    With the trail crossing and pedestrian crossing properly located several meters away from Lakeshore, it would be easier for vehicles entering Ontario Place to turn in safety dealing at first only with Lakeshore traffic, as then be able to deal with the trail crossing with a good view of the trail traffic in both direction. Also, cars driving out of Ontario place would have room to stop between the trail and Lakeshore to wait for a safe opportunity to turn with a good view of traffic.

    So, the current design is not only bad for all trail users (not only cyclists), it is also bad for vehicles drivers. This project is a nice example of a loose-loose situation.

    So it is not a war on cars, it is a war on stupid design!

  17. "So it is not a war on cars, it is a war on stupid design!"

    agreed

    @Duncan
    Yeah, just with the weaving in and out, dodging of people, the bumpy transitions from path to road and road to path, avoiding the obstacles and cars.

    I noticed it is even tricky passing though those entrance gates/obstacles/death bars when there is on coming traffic/cyclists as well.

    Those death bars are held in by pins at the base that are then held in by some thin gauge twisted wire ;)

  18. Tino at Bike Lane Diary has these shots of a truck who doesn't understand where to stop and a cab blocking the lane turning right on a red:

    Duncan's City Ride - That's my blog about cycling in the city of Toronto, natch!
  19. After having been in Mexico for 10 months (yes, I had mt MTB with me down there), I got a chance to ride this new section, north of Ontario Place a couple of times in the past 2 weeks.

    Couldn't it have been made somewhat straight(er)? What's with the ridiculous barriers that jut out into the path at the ends where the intersections are? It causes bottlenecks and is plain dangerous. Are these for motorists so that they won't use it as a road? If so, why didn't they just go for posts (1 in the middle and 1 on either edge) and paint them yellow for visibility purposes? What would have been tre cool is if they had dug up and built small tunnel underpasses at these Ontario Place intersections. No barriers would have been required and we wouldn't have been thrown into high vehicular traffic areas.

    Another spot of contention is the huge blind spot/curve at the (former Tip Top Tailors) construction site where the covered area (painted white), just west of where Queen's Quay ends. I've had a near miss and have seen others come close to a brush as well. You have joggers, rollerbladers, walkers and bikers all converging at that curve. You're restriected to the tight space and anyone coming around that corner, in either direction, can't see what's coming at them. I guess two things come to mind now; a convex mirror should be installed on that curve, and as I don't see that happening, you'll just have to approach with caution and be prepared to stop. I had lots of those in the mountains of Mexico - curva peligrosa.

    I think we also need an education awareness program on that mixed use trail as I see plenty of walkers and joggers who are all over it and don't keep to the right. Joggers, not all of them, can be seen running in the middle, AND they're wearing headphones! Bells or horns don't come in handy for them. Yelling, "On your left" didn't work either. Walkers are also seen walking two or more across the trail, acting as a block in both directions. Then you have rollerbladers who are trying to go around them and they don't do a shoulder check when passing the walkers/joggers. Bells and horns don't work for them either as they too, are wearing headphones! And what's with bikers wearing them? Wrong, wrong, wrong. And it's like that all the way over to Park Lawn.

    I'll tell ya, I'd go broke if I had to try and market common sense.

    They tell me that I have ADD. They just don't underst...Hey look! A Chicken!!
  20. On the other hand, perhaps if we could get common sense required by law we could set up a cooperative to *sell* common sense. With all the demand, we'd sure to get rich!

    Seems my theme as I look around at what I've been posting today is 'negotiation spots'. Not that negotiation is a bad thing in and of itself, but negotiation between much larger and smaller folks can cause stress and conflict. There's no way to eliminate it completely but I think that's the crux of what we need to think about when it comes to infrastructure whether it be on a path like this or on a street like Bloor.

    Hmmm - seems like my other theme for today is preaching to the choir... ;-)

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