1. singerb
   Member
   Posted 3 years ago #
   

   I'm curious for some feedback on something I've noticed Toronto cyclists doing. Not sure if it's unique to the city, but I moved here two years ago and haven't seen it elsewhere, so I have to ask:

   Running red lights isn't unique to Toronto cyclists, though surely the inordinate number of traffic signals on some bike routes (Harbord anyone?) makes it tempting. I have been known to run a red or two myself late at night, or after making absolutely sure there is no one coming. But that's not my issue here.

   The thing that confuses me is the cyclists I see in front of me (as I don't look behind me most times ;)) who run the reds with impunity, and seem to think that by swerving into the pedestrian crosswalk while they do so, that it's legal, or safe or just generally cool.

   Is there any logic to this whatsoever? It is certainly not legal, as you are still running the red light. You do not magically become a pedestrian when you ride in the pedestrian crossing. You are still crossing the path of the traffic/cyclists/pedestrians that have the green light, and would still get hit just as hard if someone with right of way didn't notice you coming.

   I guess understand the psychology, sort of, that pedestrians cross red lights all the time (and rarely get ticketed, if ever) so that if you pretend to be a pedestrian with two wheels, maybe a cop or keen-eyed citizen observer would be less likely to hurl abuse or tickets at you.

   But really, it seems like fantasy to me. And it's the kind of thing that makes people respect cyclists less as equal users of roads with cars and pedestrians.

   Anyone have any wisdom on why this is so prevalent?

2. joe
   Admin
   Posted 3 years ago #
   

   Good question singer. :)

   I too am interested in hearing what cyclists who do this would have to say.

   While I can agree with the practice of coasting through stop signs provided the way is clear and the cyclist has at least slowed down to check for cars, other cyclists, or pedestrians... the whole practice of running reds is completely foreign to me.

   I don't mind waiting the 30-60 seconds at a red light. It provides a nice rest on my commute, too. :)

3. toddtyrtle
   Moderator
   Posted 3 years ago #
   

   Great question and I don't have an answer either. I saw that in Quebec City some even when the light was green. Whatever the answer is, I think the logic might be similar to what the folks who veer in and out of parking spaces. That's one I don't get. If you're riding along a street next to parked cars and there are 3-4 free parking spaces, why are you riding in there only to surprise a driver when you pop back out?

   I think in both cases there is likely some logic in the mind of the cyclist. The same sort of logic that has people riding against the flow (then I can see if someone's going to hit me), or riding on sidewalks (it's safer there than the road).

   And I'm with Joe - there are times near the end of a long commute where I am actually *hoping* for a red light for a short break. I've found Don Mills can be *brutal* that way. When I used to ride it a couple of years ago the lights were timed such that I pretty much had a green light from York Mills down past Eglinton and I *really* felt the difference.

4. bonfire89
   Member
   Posted 3 years ago #
   

   Reds...

   Should not be run. In very rare cases I will..

   I assume that the practice of going into the crosswalk is a halfass attempt at doing a right turn, then a U-Turn, then another right turn. That, I will also do on very rare occasion.. but.. Will do a proper execution of the practice.

   Stops signs.. are not in the same category as reds in my opinion. But of course. Great caution must be exercised.

   These "rare" occasions I speak of can be: minor intersections late at night, intersections late at night that involve a major road and a minor road, intersections where left hand turns get the shaft where you have to wait several cycles to get a chance to go, intersections that literally just don't give you the opportunity to go.

5. joe
   Admin
   Posted 3 years ago #
   

   So, I asked this over in the Bike Messengers Unionizing thread, and figured I'd paste it here too for discussion:

   I don't see why anyone should feel like a "sucker" for stopping at red lights. Since we were kids we were taught that you stop at red lights. Everyone else does it... why shouldn't cyclists?

6. Duncan
   Moderator
   Posted 3 years ago #
   

   I think part of the reason for running reds is that on a bicycle it feels like you're separate from car traffic (or completely invisible to them) and moving at a much slower pace, closer to that of foot traffic.

   I find that many people, including myself, while on foot will cross at intersections even when the bright red hand is glowing. I see it all day, and sometimes do it all day, too. Yet, we aren't reading news articles on the epidemic of scofflaw pedestrians. And pedestrians are being hit by cars for doing just this (not to blame pedestrians of course).

   So, if you're cycling along, and cars are gunning up your rear and cutting in front of your for pole position at the next red, I can see many people subconsciously identifying themselves with foot traffic over car traffic, and thus behaving as such. That's my theory at least.

   Duncan's City Ride - That's my blog about cycling in the city of Toronto, natch!

7. Angus
   Member
   Posted 3 years ago #
   

   I should clarify, I feel like a sucker when stopped at a red when I'm the only one doing it and other cyclists are breezing through.
   I still stop though, it's just a good habit. It's too easy to miss a pedestrian stepping off the curb, they can be unpredictable.

8. joe
   Admin
   Posted 3 years ago #
   

   Ahh... that makes sense, Angus.

   I've been in a similar situation, and I get mad at those cyclists for giving me a bad perception amongst car drivers.

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   Member
   Posted 9 months ago #
   

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