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Maybe ask the City what they are doing along similar lines...</p> <p>Some low noise pavement info here:<br /> <a href="http://www.aapa.asn.au/default.aspx?id=184">http://www.aapa.asn.au/default.aspx?id=184</a></p> <p>tks<br /> LloK </p> http://bikingtoronto.com/forum/topic.php?id=305#post-1473 Sat, 17 Oct 2009 12:44:34 +0000 michael holloway 1473@http://bikingtoronto.com/forum/ <p>"..then the herd came roaring in." </p> <p>Nice imagery Duncan.</p> <p>mh </p> http://bikingtoronto.com/forum/topic.php?id=388#post-1308 Wed, 07 Oct 2009 14:49:53 +0000 lOCk 1308@http://bikingtoronto.com/forum/ <p>I am in love with this woman... I don't know who she is, but I hope that today she would be riding a proper hybrid human-electric kick machine and not the stinker she used to enjoy...</p> <p><img src="http://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/download/file.php?id=17892"></p> <p>:)<br /> Lock </p> http://bikingtoronto.com/forum/topic.php?id=388#post-1307 Wed, 07 Oct 2009 14:43:29 +0000 lOCk 1307@http://bikingtoronto.com/forum/ <p>I lived by the Harbour for ten years, and scoot out to see clients in Downsview and Don Mills... about 19-20kms one way, and from the harbour about 400 feet... straight up! `Course, 400 feet down headed home (smile)</p> <p>I love living downtown, surrounded by "bike culture"... but I don't see so many of my cycling neighbours in the outer reaches... I credit the power-assist w/making a difference. And of course I have been "cheating" using the empty sidewalks, moving fast as long as nobuddy is around (which again, when you are tapping about places like Carberia and North York the sidewalks are completely empty for over 90% of the commutes...)</p> <p>And of course "fast" is a relative term... 20kmh is peanuts for many on pedal bikes, but often times I am keeping up with rush hour traffic speeds and the TTC... I am a pedestrian at heart, and the scoots have been my "running machines"... When nobuddies around I can "break into a jog" and "jog" for long distances!</p> <p>Lock </p> http://bikingtoronto.com/forum/topic.php?id=388#post-1306 Wed, 07 Oct 2009 14:37:55 +0000 joe 1306@http://bikingtoronto.com/forum/ <p>Oooh... here's an idea for a new topic about us forumers.... <a href="http://bikingtoronto.com/forum/topic.php?id=392">What Do You Ride</a>? </p> http://bikingtoronto.com/forum/topic.php?id=388#post-1304 Wed, 07 Oct 2009 14:25:19 +0000 Duncan 1304@http://bikingtoronto.com/forum/ <p>I used to work at a sports store in a smaller town that sold these. We spent a lot of time out in the parking lot (and sometimes in the store) booting around on one. We sold them to a guy who gave them to his teenage kids. They came in for repairs a few times, but looked like they were getting plenty use.</p> <p>How far do you travel on these? </p> http://bikingtoronto.com/forum/topic.php?id=388#post-1302 Wed, 07 Oct 2009 14:14:12 +0000 lOCk 1302@http://bikingtoronto.com/forum/ <p>Not so unique! Legal in a lot of places like California and Oregon...</p> <p><img src="http://www.znews.com/art/features/currie-phat-flyer-se.gif"></p> <p>...but in truth, while I have kicked these for thousands of kms across Toronto pavements, these Currie-built scoot designs tend to the motorized end of the spectrum...</p> <p>A more evolved kick machine looks like this:<br /> <img src="http://www.badbag.com.au/images/kickbike/kickbike.jpg"></p> <p>These are popular in Holland and Czechoslovakia and Norway etc where they have clubs and international competitions:<br /> <a href="http://www.iksaworld.com/">http://www.iksaworld.com/</a></p> <p>From that site they provide a little chart about calories burned:<br /> A kilocalorie chart:<br /> Activity:....................... tempo:........ Kcal: Kjoules:<br /> 1 hour sit.......................... -............. 75.... 315<br /> 1 hour walk................. 3 km per hour..... 150.... 630<br /> 1 hour walk................. 6 km per hour..... 375... 1575<br /> 1 hour bike........ tour... 20 km per hour..... 600... 2520<br /> 1 hour bike........ fast... 30 km per hour..... 750... 3150<br /> 1 hour footbike... tour... 18 km per hour...... 820... 3444<br /> 1 hour footbike... fast... 22 km per hour...... 950... 3990</p> <p>Clearly kicking is less efficient than pedaling... but they promote this as an advantage for losing weight (grin)</p> <p>Like the name of the Association states, the Euro footbikes come from a Nordic tradition of kick sleds that they race in the winters, and the foot bikes evolved as training cycles for the summer months...</p> <p>When the US Consumer Product Safety Commission studied hospital admissions because of kids hurting themselves on cheaply made and poorly designed toy kick scooters, what they found in fact was that the scooter kids were having 1/2 as many accidents as their classmates learning to ride pedal bikes and the scooter injuries were less severe... The study has many flaws, but in my own experience where I have fallen off pedal bikes and kick scoots many times, I find that without having the vehicle between my legs that the tendancy is to land more on ones feet or hands and knees, and less onto the torso and shoulders and head...</p> <p>Tks<br /> Lock </p> http://bikingtoronto.com/forum/topic.php?id=388#post-1301 Wed, 07 Oct 2009 13:38:10 +0000 Duncan 1301@http://bikingtoronto.com/forum/ <p>Hey lOCk, care to share a photo of your unique ride here? </p> http://bikingtoronto.com/forum/topic.php?id=388#post-1300 Wed, 07 Oct 2009 13:08:36 +0000 lOCk 1300@http://bikingtoronto.com/forum/ <p>How about this Joe... using this existing infrastructure. What if any permitted two-wheelers were City (TTC) owned and operated. Any misbehaviour (ie moving at more than a walking pace around pedestrians or around any visual obstructions) means you lose the right to rent the vehicle from the TTC...</p> <p>I have surfed these pavements for most of ten years (I think all these pics are Finch Ave.East, but other Carberian roads (sidewalks) look similar.)</p> <p>Not actually on a pedal bike but on a foot bike (adult stand-up kick scooter) with only two rules 1) that on wheels ya have ZERO rights versus any pedestrians, or even other wheeled traffic and 2) that nobuddy around me looks nervous...</p> <p>This means that approaching any pedestrians ya just slow down... If I even think that they are beginning to edge to one side of the sidewalk (display discomfort) I step off the vehicle and walk. Pedestrians appreciate the courtesy and often smile and say thank you...</p> <p>But I "cheat" also, because the little 60lb fold-up scooters I use have a 400w motor... power assist.</p> <p>When Transport Canada studied ebikes, in their conclusions they noted that bicycles with power-assist *may* be safer in the way that the assist gives them great/easy acceleration. This means it is "easier" for the rider to slow down around intersections and pedestrians etc, knowing they can speed up again in a heartbeat...</p> <p>So this is how it has been in my experience... "Motoring" along Carberian sidewalks, shifting to kicking on the flats and downhills and when at a distance approaching pedestrians, driveways, side streets... everything that is not "clear sailing"... Basically I have had to deal w/my fellow commuters who are faced with this "apparition" floating down the sidewalk towards them. Alien technology... So transitioning to kicking and walking "takes the edge off" the experience for them. </p> <p>It's a little game... to not use the power from the batteries as much as possible... Always anticipating the stops and slow downs ahead so I roll/kick up to the situation w/out needing to use the handbrakes (energy wasted.) </p> <p>So I actually agree with the statement that riding pedal bikes on sidewalks is a bad idea, but I believe that a different (tiny light weight and slow speed) vehicle design can be employed. Making the vehicle public (ownership and operation controlled by the TTC) could also serve to weed out bad behaviour, and of course mandatory training. </p> <p>I actually like the fact there are no rules on the sidewalks (besides the obvious no bikes allowed) because it gets back to the concepts of Naked Streets and "negotiating public space"...</p> <p>Most of my commutes are extended by five/ten minutes `cause my fellow travellers regularly stop me to ask about my vehicles. My favourite question (that is asked the most) is, Is it motorized??? :)</p> <p>That's actually often the most fun in the commutes are the sidewalk conversations... 99% of them gets very positive response... Canadians just have no clue that this simple tech exists (even those these are commercial vehicles manufactured in the millions every year)</p> <p>I have also been stopped by our police well more than a dozen times. Never because they saw me endangering anyone (else)... Never received a ticket (potential fines on the books are $1000's of dollars) and never had the vehicle confiscated.</p> <p>I love the little scoots for many reason but one is that although they have the same wheelbase as a pedal bike, with little 12" wheels the overall length is a couple of feet shorter... Folds up into a shoulder bag, easier to maneuvour through doors and indoors, up stairs... Parks in my closet. On the subway half the thing slides under the subway seat. I have taken them into Loblaws many times and wheeled them up/down the aisles as a grocery cart (!) Beats having to lock a bike up outdoors and hoping it is there when you return (smile)</p> <p>So that's my suggestion for "cycling" suburban sidewalks. No private vehicles but instead tiny scooters that only travel at about 20kmh max. Trained riders who lose rental privileges if they misbehave. Oh yah... and better snow and ice clearing in the winters. Many mornings I am "breaking trails" through 2-3" of fresh powder. Fun, but like a puddle of water, not as safe if ya can't see the pavement ahead!</p> <p>Carberia is such a sprawled out wasteland. Yah there are sidewalks, but it takes forever to actually get anywhere walking! Ppl step out of their offices and apartment buildings and only walk as far as a corner where they wait for a bus...</p> <p>Tks<br /> Lock </p> http://bikingtoronto.com/forum/topic.php?id=388#post-1298 Wed, 07 Oct 2009 12:19:10 +0000 joe 1298@http://bikingtoronto.com/forum/ <p>I know what you mean, Lock.</p> <p>In the burbs, because the streets are so dangerous, sidewalks are <em>de facto</em> separated bikelanes. </p> <p>Our <a href="http://www.toronto.ca/cycling/bikeplan/network.htm">Bikeway Network</a> would be enormous if they actually were. </p> <p>Those photos show all the room that could be made for bikelanes adjacent to the sidewalk... keeping cyclists away from traffic, but leaving space for pedestrians. </p> http://bikingtoronto.com/forum/topic.php?id=388#post-1297 Wed, 07 Oct 2009 12:11:36 +0000 lOCk 1297@http://bikingtoronto.com/forum/ <p><img src="http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2484/3990603726_c4348860db_b.jpg"></p> <p>These are all pics of typical workday afternoons in the summer. "Off season" - spring, fall, winter - there are fewer pedestrians...</p> <p>tks </p> http://bikingtoronto.com/forum/topic.php?id=388#post-1295 Wed, 07 Oct 2009 12:04:30 +0000 lOCk 1295@http://bikingtoronto.com/forum/ <p><img src="http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3533/3989831909_bd0172abc5_b.jpg"></p> <p><img src="http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2523/3989831367_369f33aec3_b.jpg"> </p> http://bikingtoronto.com/forum/topic.php?id=388#post-1294 Wed, 07 Oct 2009 11:55:35 +0000 lOCk 1294@http://bikingtoronto.com/forum/ <p>Of course the sidewalks in Carborough are 99% empty 99% of the time, and half the travellers that you do see on the sidewalks are on two wheels...</p> <p>This harmonization will do a lot to discourage cycling for the sake of a few imaginary pedestrians...</p> <p>Busy rush hour Carberian sidewalks seen here:<br /> <img src="http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2610/3989812557_647950061b_b.jpg"></p> <p>tks<br /> lLok </p> http://bikingtoronto.com/forum/topic.php?id=388#post-1292 Wed, 07 Oct 2009 09:27:30 +0000 joe 1292@http://bikingtoronto.com/forum/ <p>Afraid to bike on the big bikelane-free arterial roads in scarborough, where cars go 80-100 km/h? </p> <p><ul><li><em><br /> <strong><a href="http://www.torontosun.com/news/torontoandgta/2009/10/06/11315941-sun.html">Breaking law nets $3.75 fine</a><br /> Sidewalk cycling is still 'a joke' in Scarborough</strong></p> <p> Getting caught cycling on the sidewalk is a lot cheaper in Scarborough.</p> <p>A ticket for sidewalk cycling in most parts of Toronto costs $85 but it will only land you a $3.75 fine in the east-end suburb due to lack of harmony between bylaws across the megacity.</p> <p>"For $3.75, it ain't worth the time," a frustrated Scarborough-Agincourt Councillor Mike Del Grande told the Sun yesterday. "It's a joke."</p> <p>"We're 10 years after the fact and we're still, 'harmonize this and harmonize that,' A bicycle is a bicycle no matter where you go and it should have been one of the easier ones (to harmonize)."</p> <p>Today, councillors on the public works and infrastructure committee will consider Del Grande's motion --approved by the Scarborough community council -- to harmonize bike fines and other issues related to bike safety across the city.<br /> <a href="http://www.torontosun.com/news/torontoandgta/2009/10/06/11315941-sun.html"><br /> Full Article</a><br /> </em></li></ul> </p> http://bikingtoronto.com/forum/topic.php?id=376#post-1268 Sat, 03 Oct 2009 18:40:27 +0000 joe 1268@http://bikingtoronto.com/forum/ <p>Great article from <a href="http://www.raisethehammer.org/index.asp?id=955">RaiseTheHammer.org</a>:</p> <p><ul><li><em><br /> <strong><a href="http://www.raisethehammer.org/index.asp?id=955">Myth and Reality of Cycling and Safety</a><br /> Too much of the car-vs-bicycle debate is overrun by myths and rank misinformation.</strong></p> <p><strong>Myth:</strong> Cyclists don't pay for the roads and therefore have no right to use them.</p> <p><strong>Reality:</strong> Municipal roads are paid for out of property taxes, which are paid by all residents. Fuel taxes pay for freeways and highways that cyclists cannot use. As the Ministry of Transport's, <a href="http://www.mto.gov.on.ca/english/pubs/cycling-guide/section3.0.shtml">Guide to Safe Cycling</a> reminds us, "Bicycles are prohibited on expressway / freeway highways such as the 400 series, the QEW."</p> <p><strong>Myth:</strong> Bicycles are not vehicles.</p> <p><strong>Reality:</strong> The Guide states, "A bicycle is a vehicle under the Ontario Highway Traffic Act (HTA). This means that, as a bicyclist, you have the same rights and responsibilities to obey all traffic laws as other road users."</p> <p><strong>Myth:</strong> Cyclists must always stay as close to the curb as possible so motorists are not slowed down.</p> <p><strong>Reality:</strong> Cyclists should generally ride 1m from the curb "unless they are turning left, going faster than other vehicles or if the lane is too narrow to share", according to the Guide.</p> <p><a href="http://www.raisethehammer.org/index.asp?id=955"><br /> Full Article</a><br /> </em></li></ul> </p> http://bikingtoronto.com/forum/topic.php?id=301#post-1255 Fri, 02 Oct 2009 13:44:18 +0000 joe 1255@http://bikingtoronto.com/forum/ <p>Oh yes... our street has "speed humps" too. They are pretty old so they are worn down, though.</p> <p>A section of our street is one-way only too, to prevent people from using it as an alternative to major roads. </p> http://bikingtoronto.com/forum/topic.php?id=301#post-1252 Fri, 02 Oct 2009 13:34:51 +0000 toddtyrtle 1252@http://bikingtoronto.com/forum/ <p>I was noticing the same thing in our new neighbourhood on the west end. Lots of the residential neighbourhoods not only have 30 km/h speed limits, many of them have speed bumps as well. Definitely a different experience cycling here than in Ward 26 where I used to live. </p>